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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all, I bought these two magpies: red female,


blue male.



Then they gave two offspring, which I find beautiful.

Later on, I was told that both parents were not the same, and that I should stick to a colour and I chose red. I exchanged my blue male for two red males. I took them home. One of the males has some faulty little feathers on his neck, but what worried me most is that its beak is shorter and fleshier around the tips, and the eye ceres are markedly fleshy, coarse and thick. However, the markings on body and wings are good. Here is his head detail:



My female's head, beak and eye ceres look like this:



Why are they so different? Which one is better regarding the head, eyes and beak? Should I go back to my previous plan? Is the first couple good to start out? Should I keep from mating my female to this red male?

Thank you all

Marcos
 

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colors

The bird with the white on it's head is older, and it is carrying a factor known as grizzle. Grizzle is a dominant factor. If you don't want more of them don't breed from him. Aproximately half the youngster he throws will carry the factor.

The advice you received on color was senseless. If you know pigeon color genetics you can breed pigeons in almost any combination of colors and get what you want. For example the offspring from the blue cock bird could be bred back to the recessive red hen to get more recessive red birds. The offspring of any recessive red pigeon will carry one gene for the recessive red factor. When mated back to a recessive red pigeon aproximately half the young will be recessive red. Get the online book The Pigeon Breeders Noetbook by Joe Quinn if you would like to begin an understanding of breeding for color and color factors in pigeons.
 

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I wasn't addressing your reply to the OP. I was addressing the original post with the facts. As for your disdain for genetics all I can say is to each his own.

I have no interest in genetics, genetics talk, or people who talk genetics. The poster stated he took reds in place of blues on the advice of choosing a color as opposed to crossing colors. What colors go together to keep them either true, pure or intense was advise to me from fanciers that experted in their chosen breeds, backed by decades of experience. There's plenty of reading in the antique pigeon books that state this too.

As for the white coming up throughout the red, you gave a genetics explanation, but maybe it is just 'graying' that an older bird naturally goes through. This may not have anything to do with a grizzle factor. Anyone who keeps pigeons beyond their prime will know that the richness of their younger day fades with time. I have a bird that is 13 turning 14, just finishing a set of 4 week old babies, and looks like a warted old coot who is happy to be alive.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Chuck K, thank you very much for your kind answer. I was't notified via mail, and I don't understand why.
You've been most helpful and I'll follow your advice. The second answer you gave I guess is not addressed to me. Best Christmas and Happy New Year
 

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Discussion Starter #7
alby68 thanks for your answer. Yes, I do see a difference in their heads, but I cannot tell exactly what it is... what do you note? Thank you
 

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Sorry for the late reply Marcos, but the difference is in the straight line between the top of beak and the top of the head- in the red magpie. it is not there on the blue-so the blue is not a magpie, only magpie marked. magpie marked being a color pattern, not a breed. hope this does not confuse you. there are many breeds that look similar to your red, but I believe she is a english magpie. a similar breed that is not magpie marked, but rather normally marked is the domestic show flight or modern show flight. maybe you can research both of these breeds to get more familiar with them. I have three sets of modern show flights I am going to try as foster parents this season. this is a very poor picture of her, but all I have right now, she is very young in this picture- looks much better now.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thk for your kind answer. It took ME a while to write back this time -I am in Paris on business right now. A beautiful pigeon you have. I'll keep a close look on the offspring's headlines hahaha. All the best
 
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