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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hey all...

Well...this tale started w/ my thread in this section entitled "Need suggestions on how to catch"....

I had reported that last week I had finally caught "Wingy"....as her health seemed to be deteriorating. She had a wing injury, and I had her on heat, handfeeding, and dosing w/ Medicam and Cipro.

Took her to my avian vet on Friday (in the past I would have taken her to the wild care rescus facility 20 miles north...but....I can no longer abide by them since, unless the patient's ills are straightforward and easy to fix....they put the birds down. They had done this with the last 3 pidgies I brought to them...none were anywhere close to terminal, but they were put down regardless).

But I digress....

Anyway, from hereon in they go to my avian vet first, although I always take a big hit in the wallet.

I am glad I went...poor lil' Wingy...she was a mess. Besides the wing injury, she has lice and parasites....thus the weight loss I had been obseving (Kippermom...you called that one !). She was not yet near the critical weight-loss zone...but definitely moving in that direction. She also definitely had soft-tissue inflamation, likely an infection but not as bad as one would expect.

Now...onto the wing injury...because this thread'll take another turn, momentarily. I figured it was an animal attack....probably a hawk since a feline attack would have resulted in Wingy succumbing much sooner than the 3 weeks hence....

But, last Thursday as I was looking at the injury....an injury which had a puncture top of wing coinciding with the puncture and scabby "nub" on the underside of the wing....another possibility struck me. And unfortunately...this one turned out to be true upon examination.

She had been shot by a BB gun. The vet extracted the pellet from her wing...which was the "nub" I had felt previously. Fortunately, upon x-ray...it was determined that no bones were shattered or broken....although there is a piece of "shrapnel" lodged in the humerus, the vet said that this is not of concern and she can live w/ it...it isn't making the wing structurally unstable or causing a significant fracture on the bone.

So...Wingy is on a bunch of med-cocktails.....just finished a 3-day course of Baycox, now to be followed by 5 days of Panacur for the worms...plus the Medicam...plus Clavamox as the antibiotic (she said it's better in this instance than Cipro since the infection is probably anaerobic, and Clavamox is a better choice for that). Plus handfeeding a bit to get her weight up. The old scabs were removed and the hole completely flushed and medicated....the metal pellet was right there, on the underside of the wing at the exit point. The lice will wait until later this week....vet didn't want to use any topicals until the hole scabs over good.

So...this is the second pigeon in 6 months....more likely the fourth or fifth pigeon in about a year who has been shot w/ a BB gun in my direct vicinity. I know who did this...we have some crazy old neighbors a few doors down who happen to live right next to some friends of mine. A couple of years ago, my friends told me that the wife had been complaining about the pigeons in their shared lightwell. When he offered to get a net to cover the opening...she told him she was going to get a bb gun and shoot them instead.

After my last save was put down for bb injuries last summer....I figured that she had gone thru with her claim....I approached haer and she pretended to know nothing...but beat a very, very hasty retreat.

This time, I have no doubt. The next morning I spoke to a beat cop around the corner and when I told him the story, and particularly that I was currently caring for the pigeon now....he said he would go knock on their door that morning and talk to them. He said all he could do was talk, since the police cannot act unless the criminal is actually seen or heard firing the gun or with the gun in their hands...basically caught in the act. In which case, they can search the premesis and make an arrest...which would be a partial citizens arrest if the witness would likely have to become involved. I told him I would have no problem doing that.

I am sure he knocked on their door. I am not so sure they would answer...although they were home. Again, they are old and reclusive and the woman, particularly, is unhinged....

I also am having Animal Care and Control send them a very, very strongly worded letter including an excerpt from the civil codes regarding the illegality of doing such a thing.

On top of this, I will await that letter being delivered to them, then next time I see them I am going to confront her again (respectfully but firmly) and not let her try to snake out of the conversation this time....

Back to the most important patient: she is doing OK...not very happy about all of this...she is a young adult and very, very good at being evasive and slipping my grip. The wound looks good...I am able to handfeed her about 7-8 cc of infant formula a day...and give her seed for the rest...although she is not eating much seed....I figure between the meds and stress of it all...would you be ??? I keep her in the laundry room in a box/cage w/ some heat and then when it's nice out I have been putting her out on the porch so she can see her friends on their daily visits; since they are her "homies"...and since that was her regular sleeping spot.

Anyway, so that's where we're at for the moment...will post back w/ updates.

 

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Good job! I'm sorry it has to cost you so much money, and that you also have to be both detective and nark. I wish rescuing didn't leave us an open door to the depravity and cruelty of which humanity is capable.
 

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Depending on the size of the bird, it takes about four to six dry, level teaspoons of Kaytee powder (and just about the same in water, just a tad more) per day to keep them going without losing weight. That's about 10 Calories per level teaspoon. You cut that in half to feed them twice a day so mixed, it's about 20 to 30 milliliters per serving, two servings per day.

Pidgey
 

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Oh, by the way, forgot to mention: don't put a pigeon on Panacur for that many days in a row. Pigeons and Panacur don't mix very well, especially when the bird's not doing too well.

Pidgey
 

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Hi Jaye...

Just thought I would add my 2 cents/experience with Panacur and Mr. Squeaks.

I found Squeaks with a badly broken wing - so badly broken, that part of his wing had to be amputated.

He recovered well and became the feisty bird w/ATTITUDE he is today.

One day I was changing his papers and noticed a round worm in his poop. I was surprised since, as far as I knew, the fecals that I asked to be checked had been negative.

Off to my Avian Vet, who prescribed Panacur (100/mg/ml) 0.05 cc daily for 3 days...wait 3 weeks and repeat. Squeaks weighed 400 grams.

My Vet said that the Panacur should take care of the problem and, so far, he is right, since this was happened in 2004.

HOWEVER, my Avian Vet has pigeons of his own and is quite knowledgeable about treating them. Also, Squeaks had no other problems at the time as his wing was healed.

While I have read negative results with Panacur, I think a LOT depends on the Vet prescribing and how knowledgeable he/she is about pigeons. I was fortunate to hit the jackpot with Dr. Burke!

Hope all goes well for Wingy!

Squeaks and I send Hugs and Scritches

Shi & Squeaks
 

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Oh, yes, I've got the stuff and use it from time to time but I'm very careful with it. I only do one-day treatments. They can be at especial risk if they're fighting a bacterial anemia.

Pidgey
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Thanks for the info and support, folks.

Okay...I will back off on the 5-day string of Panacur dosages....she's had one already...I will do one per day for today and tom'w then quit it....or should I just quit it after today's dosage (which would be day #2) ? The vet said she had a pretty severe case of 'em....

There's no likely way I can get that much Kaytee into her per day...but thanks for that info...it's good to know, as I had only handfed babies before. I am hoping that as the parasites bite the dust, she'll start feeling better and eating better. I also forgot to mention that I am mixing in some Nutri-Stat high-calorie additive. I have used this with great success on my parrots in the past when they needed to get their weight up.

I have a followup w/ the vet this week when she'll get weighed again. The cost isn't the thing...it's just a bummer that I can no longer trust the wildcare facility....so, although I couldn't do this every day, and I appreciate the fact that my landlord doesn't actually deposit the rent checks until the END of the month ;) .....and although I kinda wish, under the circumstances, the vet coulda thrown a little love my way for the sake of all of us being concerned w/ birdie welfare... in the end, the "$plurge" for the x-ray proved the correct course....since it showed something which the vet hadn't expected and therefore altered the course of treatment....
 

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When I`m trying to get a bird`s weight up, I mix in some chicken baby food with the Exact.It helps them get their strength back too.
Teresa
 

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Great job, Jaye and what a story. I'll be looking forward to hearing how it ALL progresses...pigeon and the neighbor saga.
I do agree with Pidgey about the Panacur. There are wormers that are much safer.
Just a thought...you might ask the vet to "throw a little love your way'.:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks for the advice, tms.....I have also used babyfood in treating my parrots in the past. But I can't use chicken:eek: ...I'm a vegetarian and I just can't do that ;). STAT is really good stuff...I highly recommend anyone give it a try...available via amazon.com.

OK, I am gonna give her the third dose of Panacur, but cut the dosage back by about 33%, and we'll just call it quits there. My vet is a great avian vet....the hospital does tend to treat/medicate very aggressively, though.

She's doing good...the bugger...she slipped out of my grasp AGAIN this AM while I was feeding...had to chase her around the kitchen and it was no easy feat to catch her again. Also, when she sees her pals outside she tries to jump up and knock the top off of her box to escape.

The antibiotic course is a 10-day...so she will be with me another 6 days or so....but she is still alert and very lively. Hope that the worms are history and that her weight starts rising again.....

Lastly, the ACC letter is awesome....cites 4 specific state and local laws and is very strongly worded. It won't be something my 'neighbors' will have wanted to receive, for sure.

I also learned this little tidbit, as an aside: the city law which prohibits pigeon feeding appears to be only applicable to public spaces (streets, sidewalks, parks, etc.), not private property.....hmmmmm.....
 

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Jaye...you can buy Nutrical and ad to the formula to increase the calories. It would also be a good thing for you to have in your animal first aide kit. Your vet should have it and it's about $10.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
doctor's visit ~ update

Hi all.

Well, we had a recheck appt. today.

Good news is the wing is healing very well. She's very alert and continues to be a little bugger in always trying to escape from me.

The wormer course of meds is complete, so she's only on Clavimox and Medicam now. Doc says she wants to stick w/ antibiotic for a while, a few more weeks, because the infection is near the bone and those tend to stick around longer....(x-rays last week showed a soft-tissue infection/inflammation around the humerus).

Only bad news is she has dropped 40g since last Friday. They crop fed her at the vet, just to get some extra food in her...and suggested I come back on Mon. or Tues. and do 2x/weekly weigh-ins (I have no scale...and I am not sure my friends at the UPS Store would appreciate me using theirs;))....

I figure 3 days of Baycor followed by 2-1/2 doses of Panacur must have killed the parasites, no ?

I am gonna up her handfeedings to 3x/day and try to get about 20-25 cc's into her, as opposed to the 2x/day 10-15 cc's we have been doing. Doc agrees that probably 30-40cc of Kaytee would be what she needs to maintain if she was not ating anyything else...but I still observe she's taking some seed, although less that I expect....

Any other suggestions appreciated.

Cheers.

 

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I'm glad she is doing so well, and that you are taking her to the vet to be weighed and checked, that is excellent.

Is she allowed any probiotics on the off time when she isn't receiving the antibiotics?

Thank you for taking such excellent care of her. She is lucky to have found you! :)
 

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Appreciate the update Jaye. :)
So glad to hear the wing is healing nicely.

Please do keep us posted on how things are coming along.

Cindy
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Is she allowed any probiotics on the off time when she isn't receiving the antibiotics?
Hi & thanks....OK...quite honestly, I will show my ignorance here...I dunno what this means. Is there some other supplement I should ask the vet about ? :eek:
 

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Here is the thing.....antibiotics will kill the live good gut bacteria (as well as bad) that allows food to digest and also keeps bad bacteria from overtaking the gut. It crucial to first line defense, from bacteria that enters the digestive system.


Good gut bacteria increases appetite and keeps bad bacteria down, it is essential for healthy gut flora and help with digesting of foods enabling nutrition to be optimally used. If you give probiotics while they are on medication, it may not allow the antibiotics to work as well, so during the hours away from medicating, you might be able to replenish the good gut bacteria with some kind of probiotic, avian or human grade, even a 1/4 teaspoon of good organic yogurt will do. You need to ask the vet if it will interfere with the antibiotics.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
free bird

Hey all,

Well...I released Wingy today. She had had 20 days of antibiotics and a full course of de-wormer....took her to a vet appt. and the vet said she has been recovering nicely. Took her for a weigh-in a few days ago and they said her weight was back up, a bit over what it had been when I had initially gotten her.

So, meds courses over, her weight back up, she was clearly wanting to get out of her cage to rejoin her friends...so I released this AM.

Surprisingly...she hung out on the porch and ate the seed I put out for everyone each morning. I figured she'd wanna skidaddle from me ASAP...but she ate a whole bunch of seed.

After about 5 mins I walked down the steps and she and another local boy (Yelloweyes) spooked and took off to a neighbors roof. She was flying well. She just still looks a tad skinnier than the other neighborhood adults.

I dunno if she'll come back to sleep under the eave of the porch any longer or not.

It was good to see her flying again and nice to know she has returned to her 'hood.

 

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Thank you for enabling her a "happy ending" and for the update. I'm sure she will return and will be grateful for the seed and water you put out for her and the flock.
 

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That's great news. Let us know if she comes back.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Thanks....yeah, looks like things are working out.


She's back already, up in the eave snuggling in for the night....:)
 
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