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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I guess when it rains it pours.
One of the new birds I have in quarantine suddenly looks kind of bad.

Lethargic and losing weight, greenish slimy droppings sticking to vent. Droppings have a faint unpleasant odor and are difficult to dislodge from the bird. (pardon my graphic description, but the last 1/8" seems to get stuck inside and I have been pulling them out with a moistened cloth to keep the poor thing from getting plugged up) Also noticed it vomiting a clear fluid from mouth & nostrils, and sometimes breathing hard with open mouth.

Could this also be canker? Any other thoughts? It seemed to come on so suddenly but could be that I was so focused on the other sick ones I just didn't notice.
 

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It could be a few things. What medications do you have on hand? Without some lab to help, I'd tend to treat for a very wide spread of things with Baytril, Metronidazole and something for Coccidiosis. If the birds regurtitating stuff, though, it might really need something injectible.

Pidgey
 

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Hi Karen,

I'm so sorry to hear this, once their immune systems are down they can get a host of trouble. What drugs have you got this bird on and how much longer?

I could guess and say it could be E-coli or Paratyphoid or another respiratory ailment/infection...but that is a guess-and there is no time to waste. Can you get the bird to an avian vet for diagnosis?
 

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Poop sticking to vent feathers usually means there's a discharge of mucus, by the way. That can come from various points of origin like the oviduct or the GI so it's kinda' hard to tell. Is there any chance it could be a hen who should be laying (not necessarily now--I'm just asking if it's a hen of laying age)?

Pidgey
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
On hand, I have some Metronidazole, and also the Global's 3-in 1 for canker, worms, coccidiosis. (don't have ingredients list on hand but there's another post from me somewhere that has them...)

I'm not supposed to be on this board from work so got to be quick right now. Will check back soon...

Pidgey it could be a hen I don't know. Mucous is visible for sure.
 

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Did you bring the bird to work with you? Is it going to be sometime late tonight when you get back to it (my schedule's as bad as yours)? Have you treated this bird lately with any of that stuff? Gotta' find out what's in the 3-in-1.

Pidgey
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Can't bring birds to work :(
It'll be evening before I get back. I did give him/her a 1/8 of a flagyl 250mg pill, more or less out of desparation.

Here's what the 3 in 1 has:
Amprolium
Ronidazole
Oxybendazole

I gave it to all 4 new birds for the recommended period when I first got them. (5 days, followed by probiotics/ACV then clear water)

Not giving it now.
 

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If it's already had a course of that then we're probably looking at something else besides what that spread covers. I sure wish you had some other antibiotics like Baytril. Is a vet out of the question? If so, is it more a matter of that there are none available that you trust or just that you don't have the time to take the bird to one due to your schedule? I seem to remember you lamenting something about vets once.

If the bird's not keeping anything down then oral drugs might not process which is why I suggested the injectible for which you'd need a vet. I guess we'll know more when you get home tonight and see how the bird's condition has changed. Moxie's got Baytril and Trimethoprim/Sulfa, so keep that in mind.

Pidgey
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
If it's already had a course of that then we're probably looking at something else besides what that spread covers. I sure wish you had some other antibiotics like Baytril. Is a vet out of the question? If so, is it more a matter of that there are none available that you trust or just that you don't have the time to take the bird to one due to your schedule? I seem to remember you lamenting something about vets once.

If the bird's not keeping anything down then oral drugs might not process which is why I suggested the injectible for which you'd need a vet. I guess we'll know more when you get home tonight and see how the bird's condition has changed. Moxie's got Baytril and Trimethoprim/Sulfa, so keep that in mind.

Pidgey
A vet is not out of the ? but would be difficult.
The only avian vet I could find near me is not familiar with pigeons/doves. She also seemed incompetent to me. No real answers and charged lots of $ for "maybe this will help" meds...when I brought in my doves once. I don't feel she would be much good for this and don't know how to find someone better.

Also I now have a new job with killer commute and probably can't take time off to bring in a bird. Just bad timing, life-circumstance wise, to have this happen.

Anyone know of a good vet North of Boston? Or in Boston? I asked a few folks I met via Norhteastern Avicultural Society but no good leads.
 

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Oxfendazole will treat for roundworms in lungs/gastrointestinal tract and also
treats for tape worm. You could have a resurgent population in addition to the
other posibilities. Do you have any stand alone wormers?

A thought on vets might be to call Tufts and ask if they could give you a referral for someone in your area. The weekend is a long way off and this
may not work for you right now if the referral had Saturday hours, but it's
worth having the information on hand, if obtainable.

Baytril/Metronidazole covers a wide range of pathogens, your previous treatment should have treated for:

Amprolium--coccidiosis
Ronidazole--Trichomonas
Oxybendazole--round & tape worms

fp
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Oxfendazole will treat for roundworms in lungs/gastrointestinal tract and also
treats for tape worm. You could have a resurgent population in addition to the
other posibilities. Do you have any stand alone wormers?

A thought on vets might be to call Tufts and ask if they could give you a referral for someone in your area. The weekend is a long way off and this
may not work for you right now if the referral had Saturday hours, but it's
worth having the information on hand, if obtainable.

Baytril/Metronidazole covers a wide range of pathogens, your previous treatment should have treated for:

Amprolium--coccidiosis
Ronidazole--Trichomonas
Oxybendazole--round & tape worms

fp
I don't have any standalone wormers. I can call Tufts & see about a referral though. Thanks for the idea.

Note: the 3-in-1 did not clear up the canker in the other bird who had visible signs
 

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I don't have any standalone wormers. I can call Tufts & see about a referral though. Thanks for the idea.

Note: the 3-in-1 did not clear up the canker in the other bird who had visible signs
Interesting, what was the dosage on the Ronidazole? You'd have to wonder
if it's canker or something resembling canker. Spartrix is a really good medication for canker to have on hand, it's very effective. It will run you
about $20 I think. If times are tight, you might be able to borrow Metronidazole
from Moxie and dose at the rate of 50mg's per kilogram twice per day. Are her
pills the 250mg pills?

fp
 

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Note: the 3-in-1 did not clear up the canker in the other bird who had visible signs
Maybe it's not canker. Second Chance had what looked like canker but it didn't resolve with high-dose anti-canker meds, either. Swabs didn't do any good. It seemed to be, when all was said and done, ulceration due to the bad case of PMV. I'm not saying that's what your bird has but there are other things that can cause a canker-like presentation.

Just out of curiosity, what exactly did it look like in color and texture? Second Chance's lesion looked rougher and less yellow than a typical canker smoothness and color (to my way of thinking).

Pidgey
 

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Size, color and location would be helpful. Could just be stubborn or as I mentioned earlier, not canker at all. Still interested in the dose amount of
the Ronidazole in the three in one. Ronidazole is a good canker medication,
and in fact thought to be superior to Metronidazole by many.

I'm thinking you must be pretty glad the new birds are still in quarantine. What
a headache for you.

fp
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Maybe it's not canker. Second Chance had what looked like canker but it didn't resolve with high-dose anti-canker meds, either. Swabs didn't do any good. It seemed to be, when all was said and done, ulceration due to the bad case of PMV. I'm not saying that's what your bird has but there are other things that can cause a canker-like presentation.

Just out of curiosity, what exactly did it look like in color and texture? Second Chance's lesion looked rougher and less yellow than a typical canker smoothness and color (to my way of thinking).

Pidgey
The bird with visible lesions had yellow, soft cheesy lumps in its mouth. They did not respond to the 3-in-1 but the course of flagyl I got from Moxie did the trick. I only administered the flagyl to that bird (Ash) and the one with the gurgling respiration (Sneazle). Not the other 2.

Pidgey - just got a call from Moxie & we'll be meeting up before I leave work about meds. I hope it isn't too late :(
 

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Let's hope! Since you've got Metronidazole, you'd probably want some Baytril and Divet tablets. I'd probably go with the Baytril and Metronidazole first and run that a few days unless something shows up that would suggest the Trimethoprim/Sulfa (Divet) tablets.

Pidgey
 

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How many miligrams in the Metronidazole pills?

fp
 

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What is the weight on this bird? Even using 50-60mg's per kilogram, that seems
a bit high for a dose.

fp
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
What is the weight on this bird? Even using 50-60mg's per kilogram, that seems
a bit high for a dose.

fp
I don't know the bird's weight. All I can tell you is that it is not a large bird - not too much bigger than a ringneck dove. I can try to pick up a scale on my way home tonite and measure. Hadn't got the chance yet.
 
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