Pigeon-Talk banner

1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
948 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Here is an article that I wrote when I got bored. Please fell free to comment about anything that I have written wrong or so. I do get a bit foolish when I get bored. :p

Pellets
How to Use them and How much to Use!
By: Iqbal Niazi
I am very tough when it comes to using pellets. I believe that seeds and fresh fruit are more nutritious. But it never hurts to add some in your seed mix. Never feed pellets alone. You may have heard that pellets are better than seeds, but that is wrong. Seeds have many more proteins, enzymes and good bacteria. All the good enzymes inside the pellets have been denatured due to cooking and exposure to heat. Since all of these nutrients and enzymes have been denatured, the bird might have digesting problems. Live enzymes help the bird digest food. Without them, it might cause many more problems in the future.
The pellets also may have artificial vitamins, and minerals. The artificial vitamins do not come from natural sources. Think about it, would you rather eat a ripe tomato that contains nice vitamins in it, or an artificial vitamin that has been processed in the lab with a lot of chemicals. I would choose the ripe tomato. I would get a lot more nutrients, enzymes, and vitamins.
See those colors in the pellets? Some people might think that they are coming from fruits. I am pretty sure an orange would not produce neon colored pellets. In many tests there has been issues with a lot of hyperactivity, where the brain cannot pay attention most of the time. It has also shown that artificial coloring may lead to skin, and lung problems. It could also cause tumors! Hold on though. Don’t run to your pantry and throw away your colored pellets. Just feed them in small amounts.
The number one thing that bothers me when I am online is when I am reading an article about a specific bird and it says that seeds are not good for birds. It always says that to only feed them pellets. What do birds do in the wild??? They eat seeds and fresh food. I don’t see any pellets when I go into the forest, or into wheat fields. Pellets have some good purposes but just feeding them pellets is not good. They need a variety of foods. They need nutrients that pellets can’t provide. Seeds and fresh foods can provide them all of those nutrients.
When I first learned about what pellets contain in them, I thought to myself, why do vets recommend them? I believe that it has to do with the company sponsoring the vet’s office.
So next time you are going to feed your bird, think about adding a little bit of pellets to a nice organic grain mix. Your birds will be happy and healthier.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,198 Posts
Well I think you may be way off base. people have used pellets for many many years. Its choice. Some have fed only pellets and birds have done great. healthy And even healthy then some GRAIN fed birds. Why because 1 now days when you buy pigeon grain The grain quality is not there. CHECK you grains in the pigeon mix. YES some companys do use a little better grain BUT many do not. no 5 grade sample grade heat burned grains grains that would not been able to be sold. Dust. So the grain has low value. I have even seen stickers in the feed. And when a bird eats them they may very well DIE. Grain used to be cleaned polished and good quality. As we pay TOP price for the amount you buy. NOW pellets the different valuse are there. They do cause a change in dropings And an oder. They digest good do not hurt the gut. Birds will drink more water because of the pellets. Sure its not natural And some people would never use them. But many do. from pigeon pellets to hog pellets to even high protein fish pellets. Far as fruits some people never give there birds fruits But some do. If pelets lost ther value when heated Then the birds would die. Just as when we cook vegetbles. So i guess PROS and CONS about use could be made But truth shows birds thrive just as long YEARS on grain and or pellets. I have fed both over the years prefured grain but as said the past few years I sure saw the grain quality go way down. And the value on grains is based on the different grains mixed making the level BUT not tested from the real value the grain being used in the mix. NO 1 NO 2 grains would be hard to find in pigeon mix any more. But 3 4 and 5 is there 5 is the worst
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20,301 Posts
If you can get the birds to eat pellets it is great for breeding, as grains are deficient in calcium and the pellet has it in there... so a supply of calcium is important esp for hens and raising babies so a source needs to be provided if you have an all grain diet.. pellets also may have vitamins and minerals in larger supply than a grain diet would..so it is a good source of getting vitamins into your birds...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
948 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Well I think you may be way off base. people have used pellets for many many years. Its choice. Some have fed only pellets and birds have done great. healthy And even healthy then some GRAIN fed birds. Why because 1 now days when you buy pigeon grain The grain quality is not there. CHECK you grains in the pigeon mix. YES some companys do use a little better grain BUT many do not. no 5 grade sample grade heat burned grains grains that would not been able to be sold. Dust. So the grain has low value. I have even seen stickers in the feed. And when a bird eats them they may very well DIE. Grain used to be cleaned polished and good quality. As we pay TOP price for the amount you buy. NOW pellets the different valuse are there. They do cause a change in dropings And an oder. They digest good do not hurt the gut. Birds will drink more water because of the pellets. Sure its not natural And some people would never use them. But many do. from pigeon pellets to hog pellets to even high protein fish pellets. Far as fruits some people never give there birds fruits But some do. If pelets lost ther value when heated Then the birds would die. Just as when we cook vegetbles. So i guess PROS and CONS about use could be made But truth shows birds thrive just as long YEARS on grain and or pellets. I have fed both over the years prefured grain but as said the past few years I sure saw the grain quality go way down. And the value on grains is based on the different grains mixed making the level BUT not tested from the real value the grain being used in the mix. NO 1 NO 2 grains would be hard to find in pigeon mix any more. But 3 4 and 5 is there 5 is the worst
First off I did not say that the pigeons would die with pellets. They will not die they do have fats in their body through the pellets. They are not getting the important enzymes. I agree pellets do have some good features and yes some grains quality has gone down, but that does not mean the enzymes are gone. Natural vitamins, and natural food is good. I feed my birds vegetables and fruits a lot. They eat what they want. Pigeons do explore a lot. I can survive off of of almond pulp that comes from almond milk, but I won't be getting the good oils from the almond. Just the fiber. I could survive off of anything without nutrients just as long, but it wouldn't be as healthy as it should and the person would feel better.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
948 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
If you can get the birds to eat pellets it is great for breeding, as grains are deficient in calcium and the pellet has it in there... so a supply of calcium is important esp for hens and raising babies so a source needs to be provided if you have an all grain diet.. pellets also may have vitamins and minerals in larger supply than a grain diet would..so it is a good source of getting vitamins into your birds...
Yeah, I buy vitamin,calcium powder from the bird store and put a teaspoon into my feed and add some olive oil so the feed can get coated with it. They also get some calcium from the pellets I add. About the vitamins part. Most of the vitamins in the pellets are artificial. Like said in this article. http://www.parrot-and-conure-world.com/parrots-health.html
I understand that organic pellets are still available but, there is those nutrients that are missing. Pellets are good. But they should be available with a supply of grains. IMO.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20,301 Posts
I think I know what you mean... it is like processed food vs whole natural foods for people.. but we feed dogs kibble, not raw fresh meat.. what a wolfs natural diet would be.. the kibble has all they need in it it is a complete diet..and so does a pellet feed..but it does seem kind of boring if that is all one is feeding.. some mix the two which sounds about perfect..but they tend to leave the pellets so one would have to be patient and not over feed for them to eat both the grain and the pellets.. it just comes down to choice, I don't think one is better than another..allthough, I have noticed squabs grow faster and healthier if their parents are being fed a pellet diet..
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,198 Posts
First off I did not say that the pigeons would die with pellets. They will not die they do have fats in their body through the pellets. They are not getting the important enzymes. I agree pellets do have some good features and yes some grains quality has gone down, but that does not mean the enzymes are gone. Natural vitamins, and natural food is good. I feed my birds vegetables and fruits a lot. They eat what they want. Pigeons do explore a lot. I can survive off of of almond pulp that comes from almond milk, but I won't be getting the good oils from the almond. Just the fiber. I could survive off of anything without nutrients just as long, but it wouldn't be as healthy as it should and the person would feel better.
But the nutrients are in the pellets. Its just not the same as real grain the natural way. Kind of what I saw on the news today about PETA they are going to have 2 women shower naked in OKC with a shower curtion To demonstrate going green. There idea of NO MEAT eating. As the say it takes something like 70 showers to remove the bad stuff after you eat 1 pound of meat. meaning what some do they do others do different. Yes i agree I like grain better for the birds But some like pellets. AND I have even been told by some people after they started using only pellets they have never had any canker in there loft. Your idea meets your thoughts And you can promote that idea And many can agree. Me i think either way the birds will stay very healthy for many years And That is what counts. Not disagreeing in in whole JustSaying I think its ok to use pellets if you want.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
948 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
But the nutrients are in the pellets. Its just not the same as real grain the natural way. Kind of what I saw on the news today about PETA they are going to have 2 women shower naked in OKC with a shower curtion To demonstrate going green. There idea of NO MEAT eating. As the say it takes something like 70 showers to remove the bad stuff after you eat 1 pound of meat. meaning what some do they do others do different. Yes i agree I like grain better for the birds But some like pellets. AND I have even been told by some people after they started using only pellets they have never had any canker in there loft. Your idea meets your thoughts And you can promote that idea And many can agree. Me i think either way the birds will stay very healthy for many years And That is what counts. Not disagreeing in in whole JustSaying I think its ok to use pellets if you want.
I believe that it is ok to use it. But in my opinion it should be used with grains. Because it is like just taking cooked food without salad or fruits at all. Again this is all my opinion.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,098 Posts
Pellets were invented because grains alone might not have complete vitamins, minerals, etc. If you will pellets are more nutritious. As re lee commented, grains nowadays might be lacking certain nutrients because of poor soil, etc.

In my experience using pellets help babies grow bigger, faster, healthier. I must admit that I also use grains as well mix with it. There are pros and cons of either grains or pellets.

I must also admit that your post has many wrong factual information to it. If you can sight what scientific papers you have read, I would like to read it as well because what you posted and what I have read in science books and articles don't match yours.

Pellet makers work with scientist, vets, nutritionist, etc. Some vets obviously recommends them because science experiments show that they work. I think in the lab they feed pellets to be consistent. In other words the experimenter don't need to worry about varying nutritional value of certain grains, etc. If they feed pellets, they know exactly what they are feeding. No guesswork there.

As I said I use both grain and pellets together. I use grain so that the organs don't forget what they suppose to do and pellets to make sure the birds have complete nutrition.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
948 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Pellets were invented because grains alone might not have complete vitamins, minerals, etc. If you will pellets are more nutritious. As re lee commented, grains nowadays might be lacking certain nutrients because of poor soil, etc.

In my experience using pellets help babies grow bigger, faster, healthier. I must admit that I also use grains as well mix with it. There are pros and cons of either grains or pellets.

I must also admit that your post has many wrong factual information to it. If you can sight what scientific papers you have read, I would like to read it as well because what you posted and what I have read in science books and articles don't match yours.

Pellet makers work with scientist, vets, nutritionist, etc. Some vets obviously recommends them because science experiments show that they work. I think in the lab they feed pellets to be consistent. In other words the experimenter don't need to worry about varying nutritional value of certain grains, etc. If they feed pellets, they know exactly what they are feeding. No guesswork there.

As I said I use both grain and pellets together. I use grain so that the organs don't forget what they suppose to do and pellets to make sure the birds have complete nutrition.
My article says that feeding pellets alone... is not good, but mixing is fine. Also list some of the wrong factual information.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
948 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Now I'm all mixed up I cant feed pellets I shouldn't feed grain. Guess I'll have to give them a bowl of stew and a beer.
Dave
Lol, I never said not to feed pellets, I am saying to feed grains and pellets, because the birds need natural food, also, organic pellets are better than the pellets that have colors and stuff on them. I say feed pellets and grains together. But that is up to you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
948 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
I think I know what you mean... it is like processed food vs whole natural foods for people.. but we feed dogs kibble, not raw fresh meat.. what a wolfs natural diet would be.. the kibble has all they need in it it is a complete diet..and so does a pellet feed..but it does seem kind of boring if that is all one is feeding.. some mix the two which sounds about perfect..but they tend to leave the pellets so one would have to be patient and not over feed for them to eat both the grain and the pellets.. it just comes down to choice, I don't think one is better than another..allthough, I have noticed squabs grow faster and healthier if their parents are being fed a pellet diet..
I am not sure about this, but it could depend on what type of pellets you are feeding them, if you are feeding chicken or turkey pellets, many of those pellets have artificial growth hormones so that could be one of the reasons that the birds grow faster. Again I am not sure, but I am going to google it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,098 Posts
Almost every statements you mentioned contain fallacious arguments. For example, you mentioned that seeds/fruits are more nutritious. Well, the answer is that it is not necessarily the case. Some wheat, corn, etc., are known to have less nutrition or have missing elements. I am not going to argue with you whether what you say is correct or not further. It is just when I read your post, my brain got triggered that many of your info doesn't coincide with what I've read in scientific papers. Even your other post of chicken or turkey pellets containing artificial growth hormones is wrong. Some of them DO have it and the manufacturers are required by law to mention it in their packaging. Some don't. So you can't say that many of those pellets contains those growth hormones. That is one of the reasons you have those labels. You know exactly what you are getting. Now some of those pellets are medicated, too. But not all of them!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,852 Posts
A dog kept by a human and fed dry dog food (really just big pellets) is healthier than wolfs eating what they eat in the wild.

Almost every animal you can name, if raised by humans on a controlled "pelletted" diet, will be healthier than the same animal living in the wild on their natural diet.

There are exceptions of course. But in general, just about any living thing survives longer and healthier, on a man made diet designed for their specific nutritional needs.

Having said all of that. I want my birds to be "covered" in as many aspects as possible, in regards to their diet. That is why I feed pellets and grain. But 85% pellets. There are different pellets of course. But I use the best I have been able to find. Purina Green and Purina Gold.

Now, if we want to discuss which makes the birds happier and less bored, then the discussion can go into a different direction I guess. But there is no doubt in my mind that pellets are healthier than grain. Pigeons will pick and choose what they like in the grain mix, but they can not do that with pellets. It is like children. They will often eat just what they like and not necessarily much if any, of what is good for them.

My opinions, anyway.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20,301 Posts
I am not sure about this, but it could depend on what type of pellets you are feeding them, if you are feeding chicken or turkey pellets, many of those pellets have artificial growth hormones so that could be one of the reasons that the birds grow faster. Again I am not sure, but I am going to google it.
Iam sure.... as I have seen the difference...try it and do a test of your own, your squabs will be healthier and larger with pellets given to the parent birds.. purina pigeon checker pellets or even the purina green and gold pellets...and they do not have hormones in it... this is for pets/racing pigeons, not commercial fryer chickens..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
948 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Almost every statements you mentioned contain fallacious arguments. For example, you mentioned that seeds/fruits are more nutritious. Well, the answer is that it is not necessarily the case. Some wheat, corn, etc., are known to have less nutrition or have missing elements. I am not going to argue with you whether what you say is correct or not further. It is just when I read your post, my brain got triggered that many of your info doesn't coincide with what I've read in scientific papers. Even your other post of chicken or turkey pellets containing artificial growth hormones is wrong. Some of them DO have it and the manufacturers are required by law to mention it in their packaging. Some don't. So you can't say that many of those pellets contains those growth hormones. That is one of the reasons you have those labels. You know exactly what you are getting. Now some of those pellets are medicated, too. But not all of them!
Here are some of the are the articles that i read.

http://www.avianweb.com/nutrition.html

Here is also one of some that I have read.

http://www.africangreys.com/articles/nutrition/pellets.htm

And, I said it may be one of the reasons, I never sad that it is. It could be. I am going to do some research.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,198 Posts
Here are some of the are the articles that i read.

http://www.avianweb.com/nutrition.html

Here is also one of some that I have read.

http://www.africangreys.com/articles/nutrition/pellets.htm

And, I said it may be one of the reasons, I never sad that it is. It could be. I am going to do some research.
Both links provided are for hook bill. Parrots mostly. Which are different from pigeons And in the will eat much more different type of food. So It really does not relate much to none on pigeon health. I knew A person That bred 500 pairs of cockatiels And used Dog food moist dog food For feedings And said his birds did great the young grew faster And that was just dog food. He sold his young to a place in florida And they went to alot of pet stores. But A pigeons needs will vary from a hook bill to a certion point. You should read up on pigeon pellets And even poultry As they are near the same on feed needs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,098 Posts
ValencianFigs,

Thanks for the links! I have read the first article before I got into pigeons and I am also aware about parrot's diet as well. The second article is new to me. Twenty years ago I had several different birds including the parrot species(different kinds). You are so right that parrots are quiet difficult to feed. They do require specialized diet. I think here in San Diego Zoo, they feed them fruits as well. They are sure picky. I think because of that pellet feeding for them is not enough and the reason is that we still don't know everything that they need so fruits and other grains are given to them as well. The pellets for them might not be complete then for that species so they need supplements. I suppose if scientist can know (almost) everything that those parrot species require, then they will probably put it in the pellets. Now I am beginning to understand why you posted what you posted. I was thinking of pigeons and chickens while you probably thinking of exotic birds with exotic requirements. If so then you are correct. Pellets will not be enough for those species because we still don't know everything that they require and so the pellets doesn't contain necessary nutrients for them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
948 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
ValencianFigs,

Thanks for the links! I have read the first article before I got into pigeons and I am also aware about parrot's diet as well. The second article is new to me. Twenty years ago I had several different birds including the parrot species(different kinds). You are so right that parrots are quiet difficult to feed. They do require specialized diet. I think here in San Diego Zoo, they feed them fruits as well. They are sure picky. I think because of that pellet feeding for them is not enough and the reason is that we still don't know everything that they need so fruits and other grains are given to them as well. The pellets for them might not be complete then for that species so they need supplements. I suppose if scientist can know (almost) everything that those parrot species require, then they will probably put it in the pellets. Now I am beginning to understand why you posted what you posted. I was thinking of pigeons and chickens while you probably thinking of exotic birds with exotic requirements. If so then you are correct. Pellets will not be enough for those species because we still don't know everything that they require and so the pellets doesn't contain necessary nutrients for them.
I am talking about birds in general. Parrots and pigeons are closely related, they both produce crop milk and have almost the same body structure. I believe some people know about this. I am going to look more into this. I have many types of birds besides pigeons and I feed most of them the same feed sometimes I add different stuff in but I feed them the same pellets and no problems. Chemicals is bad for all birds. I am sure that there are many synthetics in every pellet.
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Top