[jordan.royal]

I let my pigeon free fly at the park today, and everything was going good until a hawk came out of nowhere and snatched her up. The people at the park were screaming and the hawk dropped her in some bushed. I ran to get her but the hawk came back before i could find her. My bird got away and flew across the park trying to get away (everyone still chasing them) the hawk finally gets her again but a guy shooed the hawk away. We did get her back. She seems fine, there is no blood anywhere, i dont think anything is broken. Just a couple tail feathers are missing. We came home and put her in her cage. She still seems fine but she is limping around the cage. She can still use is as she guards her cage (she has really bad cage aggression) and she eats still. Do you think she will be ok? i think she was just shocked.

 

[spirit wings]

yes she should be ok.. add a heating pad under a towel for her..she should be fine in a week or sooner.. I have had this happen..and all of them recoverd.. I only had one I had to give antibiotic to because it was a bad wound.. if she does not have blood or wounded she should be fine..

flying a single bird is risky..usually there is better saftey in numbers..as the flock flys together and look out for each other.. they can out fly a hawk because they fly in a tight group and go very high when they see one.

 

[jeff houghton]

that is one lucky bird to be grabbed twice and still live to fly again, good for your bird.mine was not to be so lucky a fortnight ago.i hiope he recovers soon.

 

[spirit wings]

most times a bird can be saved this way.. because the hawk grounds the bird first and then takes them off to kill and eat them.. so really the talon has to go deep and hit the right spot for the grounding to be lethal.. most time they just have loss of feathers and a few scrapes.. sometimes some ripping in the flesh.. but not a lethal stab..

 

[Jaye]

Personally...I would get her to a vet to be safe. If not, in the very least I would do an antibiotic course for 7 days.

I would like to clarify: it need not be a 'lethal stab' or bite. Even a scratch can start an infection. A bone fracture can also result in an infection. People think because there's no blood all will be fine. That is really a huge and dangerous assumption to make.

I am very glad to hear you got her back relatively safely.

You also will need to rethink the free-flying thing.....

 

[jordan.royal]

Ok, she is still doing fine. Instead of putting her back in her large cage, i put her in a smaller cage carrier. She has been out walking around as usual although she still has a slight limp and she can still perch on perches in her cage. i also noticed that she did hurt her wing. She is a little hesitant to lift it all the way, but when i lift it she doesn't seem to be bothered by. her appetite is still the same, she has been preening herself quite alot since she's been home, she has tried to fly to follow me, she can fly a little but you can tell it kinda hurts or is sore. I gave her a heat pad

 

[TAWhatley]

If you haven't already done so, have a very, very careful look under the wings .. like in the "wingpit" .. often that is where a hawk injury will be.

Terry

 

[Jaye]

Mmmmmmm....really, please do not be leisurely about treating her. It is amazing she survived, thanks to a lot of people, obviously.

Now it is up to you to do right by her. Don't be casual....

 

[jordan.royal]

jaye, what exactly do u mean about the 7 course antibiotic course? i will take her to a vet, but the closet avian vet is about an hour away and they are closed monday and tuesday

 

[jordan.royal]

Update on pigeon

I found an avian vet that was willing to come to the office after hours i told him it was an emergency. He said my bird will be fine. She has no infection. He told me to just let her rest for about a week. He gave me some vitamins to put in her water it its suppose to help her grow her feathers back a little quicker. Thank you all for your help.!!

 

[spirit wings]

as said.. because I have had this happen, there was no need to jump on the antibiotic bandwagon (for good reason)... some people do not have birds they fly so think any scrape needs medication..it is just not true.... if there was deep flesh wounds.. then that would be different....

 

[Dobato]

I am one of those people who do not fly their birds, and I agree, not every scape needs to be treated with antibiotics. However, Jordan has stated this was a hawk attack and given this fact, there are those of the opinion that any attack by a predator that causes a wound, even minor, should be treated with a 5-7 day course of antibiotics to be on the safe side. I am sure there are very many cases where a hawk attacked birds recovered just fine, with no treatment, and very likely may be the case here.

However, it's kind of like when person takes a child in to the ER for a cut they picked up while playing that may need a few stitches. They will ask has this child ever had a tetanus shot and when was the last time, and if it isn't within certain guidelines, they will give a shot or a booster. They do this for the same reason predator wounds should be considered different that other kinds of injuires, because while the odds are small that a tetanus infection may set in, there is always that real possibility and because the vaccination is safe, and 100% effective, giving it takes this possibility right off the table. Same with pigeons, the antibiotics used are safe and effective and IMHO, I believe people should be made aware there is the possibility of a Pasteurella infection occuring, so they can make a fully informed decision on whether to treat or not to treat.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=284755&postcount=4


Karyn

 

[spirit wings]

I am one of those people who do not fly their birds, and I agree, not every scape needs to be treated with antibiotics. However, Jordan has stated this was a hawk attack and given this fact, there are those of the opinion that any attack by a predator that causes a wound, even minor, should be treated with a 5-7 day course of antibiotics to be on the safe side. I am sure there are very many cases where a hawk attacked birds recovered just fine, with no treatment, and very likely may be the case here.

However, it's kind of like when person takes a child in to the ER for a cut they picked up while playing that may need a few stitches. They will ask has this child ever had a tetanus shot and when was the last time, and if it isn't within certain guidelines, they will give a shot or a booster. They do this for the same reason predator wounds should be considered different that other kinds of injuires, because while the odds are small that a tetanus infection may set in, there is always that real possibility and because the vaccination is safe, and 100% effective, giving it takes this possibility right off the table. Same with pigeons, the antibiotics used are safe and effective and IMHO, I believe people should be made aware there is the possibility of a Pasteurella infection occuring, so they can make a fully informed decision on whether to treat or not to treat.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpost.php?p=284755&postcount=4


Karyn

just because it was a hawk makes not a difference, Im not talking about cats here.. most birds that have been saved from a hawk with just missing feathers and maybe a few small scrapes.. do not need antibiotics... I work with animals and do not run to the DOC every time I get a scrape.. over medicating with these medicines are creating super bugs and resistant strains.. and when you have birds that you fly and they have mishaps you learn from experience, this birds is a good example of that.

 

[Dobato]

I think the point I am trying to make is being missed. When people come here for help and information, IMHO, I think it's incumbent that they be made aware of the issues and possibilities that attend each situation, as each person offing help knows them. I have absolutely no problem with a person choosing any course of action they feel is right for themselves, and their bird, even if I may disagree, but they they should be fully briefed of all issues, both major and minor as we know them, so their decision is a fully informed one.


Karyn

 

[spirit wings]

I think the point I am trying to make is being missed. When people come here for help and information, IMHO, I think it's incumbent that they be made aware of the issues and possibilities that attend each situation, as each person offing help knows them. I have absolutely no problem with a person choosing any course of action they feel is right for themselves, and their bird, even if I may disagree, but they they should be fully briefed of all issues, both major and minor as we know them, so their decision is a fully informed one.


Karyn

Iam not wanting to go back and forth with you, and I agree.. he/they should be told that the antibiotics are not always nessesary, esp if they discribe the situation well, it was not about choosing a course of action..it is just a fact.. people who fly birds do not always have to use antibiotics or seldom from a hawk attack.. I have plenty of live healthy birds x hawked to prove it..... just for the record your advice is really appreciated by many Im sure, including me.. This bird was the example of NOT needing antibiotics..which is the common sense course of action.

 

[Dobato]

Yes, your right, we shouldn't go back and forth, but the limping was a concern to me and I know for a fact that not all puncture wounds bleed and with some om my more dense birds, I know I could easily miss a very small puncture, that's all that was on my mind.

Karyn

 

[spirit wings]

Yes, your right, we shouldn't go back and forth, but the limping was a concern to me and I know for a fact that not all puncture wounds bleed and with some om my more dense birds, I know I could easily miss a very small puncture, that's all that was on my mind.

Karyn

true, I was only going by the owners discription...which I trusted to be right...

 

[Quazar]

just because it was a hawk makes not a difference, Im not talking about cats here.. most birds that have been saved from a hawk with just missing feathers and maybe a few small scrapes.. do not need antibiotics... I work with animals and do not run to the DOC every time I get a scrape.. over medicating with these medicines are creating super bugs and resistant strains.. and when you have birds that you fly and they have mishaps you learn from experience, this birds is a good example of that.

A short course of antibiotics over a period of days will not generate superbugs or a resiliant strain. Prolonged, continual or excessive use however will.
While I am a great believer of NOT using medication in general if it can be avoided, I also try to balance out the consequences and outcomes.
Us as humans have a good immune system that can deal with small cuts & scrapes, and theres also a good deal of creams out there that we can use to treat them if nessesary so we do not have to run to the doc every time.
In the case of Pigeons, their immune system is limited. Also, as they are so resilliant to show any signs of illness or weakness for some time, by the time it is apparent to us, it is often too far advanced for any help to be effective.
Sometimes we have to guess whether it was a predator attack or just a "flying mishap" as you put it. In this instance we know it was from a predator.
While it was not a cat or dog, It was a hawk, but do we know what other bacteria from previous prey the hawk has had on its talons ?
The bird has also been preening etc and even though no punctures, any bacteria from the talons on the birds feathers could still be disadvantageous to it.
Fortunately this bird has been seen by a vet, so hopefully with no scrapes or visible puncture wounds it will be ok.
I would normally still recomend ANY predator attack be treated with antibiotics to be on the safe side and at least give the bird that extra bit of help to be able to withstand the stress of the attack and fight off any bacteria should it be present.

 

[spirit wings]

A short course of antibiotics over a period of days will not generate superbugs or a resiliant strain. Prolonged, continual or excessive use however will.
While I am a great believer of NOT using medication in general if it can be avoided, I also try to balance out the consequences and outcomes.
Us as humans have a good immune system that can deal with small cuts & scrapes, and theres also a good deal of creams out there that we can use to treat them if nessesary so we do not have to run to the doc every time.
In the case of Pigeons, their immune system is limited. Also, as they are so resilliant to show any signs of illness or weakness for some time, by the time it is apparent to us, it is often too far advanced for any help to be effective.
Sometimes we have to guess whether it was a predator attack or just a "flying mishap" as you put it. In this instance we know it was from a predator.
While it was not a cat or dog, It was a hawk, but do we know what other bacteria from previous prey the hawk has had on its talons ?
The bird has also been preening etc and even though no punctures, any bacteria from the talons on the birds feathers could still be disadvantageous to it.
Fortunately this bird has been seen by a vet, so hopefully with no scrapes or visible puncture wounds it will be ok.
I would normally still recomend ANY predator attack be treated with antibiotics to be on the safe side and at least give the bird that extra bit of help to be able to withstand the stress of the attack and fight off any bacteria should it be present.

It was clear it did not need it... that IS over use, .. so I disagree, the vet made the right call as said, with experience with this, is how one knows.. not sure why it has to be gone over all again, pretty simple really....but it is good to know your opinion.