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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Starting a new thread for Rosa, who seems most at risk of the 3 I brought into the house today. She's on the right in the picture...


She's been standing like a penguin down at the loft, but today mostly like the picture, and her crop seems "stuck." I can feel seeds in it.
I didn't notice that she was breathing audibly until I brought her into the house.

She weighs 368g and got agitated when I picked her up to weigh her.
She coughed and I thought maybe she was going to void her crop, but only a few drops of liquid came forth, and it smelled like blood (i.e. the "iron" smell). :eek:

Now that she's calmer, she's breathing easier and a little quieter, but still looks quite uncomfortable. She's in a big hospital cage with the two other hens in the picture, one of whom has similar crop symptoms, but whose breathing is all right. They have option to sit over heat, and a cup of pedialyte to drink from.
They have not been offered any seed.

I called the avian vet's office where I where took Velvet yesterday, but she isn't in until tomorrow, and the emergency vet the office referred me to is at least an hour away, we're not sure if they even see pigeons, and the roads are getting icy, so I need to keep her stable until morning, if I can...

From Phil's advice in my other thread, it seems Rosa will need nystatin, antibiotics, and metronidazole (or one of the other 'zoles) and I'm not sure where to begin, since there are breathing and crop issues all at once.

Thanks in advance for advice, assistance, blessings, prayers, etc.
 

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Robin, separate her out, so she has no seeds/food right now, start her on Baytril and Metronidazole and a few hours from now give her some Nystatin. Tube her the meds in 8cc of re-hydration fluid, as this will either help her move things along or give her more volume if she wants to void her crop contents.

Hold off in providing water in a dish for her until we see how things go for a bit with this.

Karyn
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
OK, I will put Nancy in with her sisters, and separate Rosa into the smaller cage and tube her meds.

I have metronidazole as both 60mg & 100mg tabs; how many mg should she get, and should I crush the tabs and suspend them in the solution, or pill her?

The medistatin I have is powder, and I'm not sure how to mix it in... I reviewed Karyn's instructions from Junior's thread, but it's not making sense to me today :eek:

Moving birds as soon as I post this...
 

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I would crush the 60mg Metronidazole and add it to the fluids to tubed along with a loading dose of 0.20cc Baytril and 2 single drops of ACV. I would also very, very gently massage this around her crop a a few seconds to loosen things up.

See my edit in your other thread.

Karyn
 

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Yes...with-hold Seeds and Water for the time being.

If the Crop seems to have much Liquid in it, it should be suctioned out, for which, the 'Tube' is modified to have a angle cut opening in the end, flame softened edges, and, a small opening about 1/4 inch up, on the side.


I would get the Medistatin in first, wait a while, then the other Meds, or, just do all at once.


I would add a little ACV also to anything tubed in presently, also.


Have her by herself, so you can for sure see her poops/urates.

Just take a more or lesds level Teaspoon worth of the Medistatin, put into a small Bottle with a Lid or Cap, add 20 mLs of tepid Water to it, shake it up make sure all is dissolved well, use 1 to 1.5 mL to a dose.

Shake well each time since it settles and seperates when sitting.


You can just do this -


Take a 10 mL Syringe which you will affix a section of Catheter to for Tubing things in.

Do you know how to prepare the Catheter for this?


Put a 60 mG Tablet of Metronidazole into the Syring Barrel, insert the Plunger.


Having prepared the Medistatin, draw about 1.5 mL of that solution, into the Syringe ( just into the Syringe, not via the Tube/Catheter )


Let this sit a few minutes.

Grab a Shot Glass, slowly depress the Syringe Plunger to expell the Liquid and semi-dissolved Tablet of Metronidazole into the Shot Glass, draw the Liquid back in, expell, draw in some Air, look at the base of the interior of the Suringe, and you will see some of the crushed Tablet which is not dissolved, draw in Liquid again, plus an inch worth of Air, and shake vigorously till all the Tablet is dissolved.

Set the Catheter and Syringe in warm Water, assemble, lube, and Tube in the Medistatin-Meds combo.
 

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'Reglan' is also good for this syndrome ( ie: to reduce inflamation associated with the Proventriculus )...this would tend to be an Injection of course.


...as is adding a little Cayanne powder to the formula, once formula is safe to give. Just make it about how 'medium hot' would be to one's own Taste.

No Seeds for a while, only thin formula ( for three or four days ) once Crop is emptying...
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks for the med-combining instructions, Phil!

I got the meds, syringe, & tube all ready.
Then I burritoed Rosa, and when I opened her beak, saw that she has a big PEA stuck in her throat. :eek:
I don't want to injure her, and don't think I can weasel the tube past it.
How do I get it out ???
 

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Do you have a pair of fine tweezers? If so, will they reach - we have used that means of getting a peanut from a bird's throat
 

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Robin, I have had this happen before. Dampen a Q-tip and use this to push and twist at the stuck pea. It soft enough not to injure her, but strong enough to dislodge the pea. Anything hard can be problematic if she suddenly moves, as it may cause injury. Make sure the kind you are using has the cotton end attached very well. Point her head down and follow with a little water to the side of her beak to make her swallow.

Karyn
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Got the pea out, and could see more further down... so I tubed about 5ml of the 8ml dose.
When I could see she was going to vomit, I held her head low, and up came 4 more BIG peas and about a dozen assorted smaller seeds, along with some pink (bloody?) ropy saliva.
I told her I was sorry...
I don't think she vomited as much fluid as I tubed, and there's still more seeds in her crop, so I'm hoping some of the meds are still in there and starting to work.
She's "resting" now, but sometimes standing like a penguin again, rather than hunched over like earlier.
I hope I haven't done harm...
 

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Robin, glad you managed to dislodge the pea. You did not harm her, I had feeling that giving her some fluids would help her in trying to void her crop contents. Gently massage her crop a bit, this will give you a chance to gage how full it currently feels and loosen things up, then leave her for a few hours. Later, feel her crop and compare it to how it felt earlier (now) to see if the contents are moving at all. If you feel it has gone down, tube her 10cc of hydration fluid with three single drops of ACV, this again with help her void the contents, or move things along and leave her until the morning.

In the morning, if the crop has fully emptied, you can decide if you want to take her in to the vet or continue with meds and fluids and bring her along like we did Junior. If it has not emptied in the morning she should see the vet to have her crop cleared, and injectable meds most likely started.

Karyn
 

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Hi Robin,


Good that she is throwing up...

Tube some ACV Water in there while yer at it...say, 1-1/2 Tablespoons to a Quart of Water...just tune in a couple mLs worth.



Just guess as best you can how much of the Meds are being thrown up and out, and, replace that percentage later today.


That is one reason I usually do the 'Medistatin' ( along with a little ACV-Water sometimes ) first, wait a while...then do the other Meds, but, either way...no big deal if the initial dose ends up being a little stout, it's only going to trickle through most likely, so, it is like a 'Time Release' sort of thing anyway, in it's way.

Provide warmth if you are not already...


Images of this one's poops de jur?


Phiol
Lv
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
I massaged her crop a little before I released her back into the cage after vomiting, and have told her to feel free to vomit some more, if she needs to.
Rosa has my only heating pad right now... and has been sitting half on and half off of it.
I may run out and try to get another heating pad, for the 3 in the big cage; that room feels a little chilly to me tonight.

I don't have any droppings other than what I've already posted, of which some were Rosa's and some were Amy's.
I'm confident she made at least 3, since she and Amy were not sitting near each other, and there were 3 near her.
Rosa hasn't had anything to eat or drink (other than what I just gave via tube) in about 8 hours, but her nestbox had plenty of green slimy droppings in it this morning.
 

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Any Drug Store ought to have a decent basic non-automatic-shut-off, off-&-3-position switch Heating Pad for like $12.00 or so...I just got another one a couple days ago ( have ten in operation at the moment I think...oye...)


As long as the Crop is not overly full of Liquids, it is fine to massage it ( from below, from it's base area ) and hope for more throw-ups.

The more of anything in there that she can get out, the better.
 

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Yes, as Phil says, with the massaging, I do find at times this helps things either come up and out or passed through the system. The rest sounds fine, let's see how the crop feels in a few hours.

Karyn
 

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They can have a bunch of crud, inflamitory debris, Yeast-byproducts, Seeds stuck together with this soft-Tofu-like stuff, thick Mucous, whatever, and, 'Massaging' the lower area can help break up these relatively soft agglomerations for them to come out or pass through.

I think the ACV-Water helps this also, so I usually include it along with the Medistatin.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I just checked Rosa's crop, and looked down her throat, and lo, there was another big pea waiting to be fished out, so I did.
Couldn't see anything else, so I just massaged her crop gently for a minute or two and let her back into the cage.

She hasn't thrown up again, and I can still feel seeds in her crop, so I haven't tried tubing anything else yet. I'll check her crop & throat about every hour until I crash, and fish out anything that's waiting... if it gets empty enough by "going down" instead of "coming up" I'll try tubing the rest of the meds... there's about 4-5ml still waiting.
 

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Although not what we would like right now, it's more or less normal to be feeling the seeds and such in a slowed down crop. Do you think it has gone down some since earlier in the evening? How much do you thin Rosa threw up before? If it has gone down, I would double the amout of fluids to around 10cc, if she threw up more than a few CCs, I would add 1 more drop of the 10% Baytril to the fluids and a bit more Metronidazole and Medistatin as well and two more single drops of ACV.

Karyn
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Update, 11:30pm
Finally, a dropping:

Looks pretty awful, but finally something's coming out the right end.

Removed another pea from Rosa's throat; can still see more, but they're not gettable (yet). Gave her the remaining meds dose; she did not throw it up.
But, I notice the irises of her eyes are a bright reddish color; usually they're a softer color... I hope this isn't a bad sign.
You can also see there's still some stuff in her crop, though it feels a lot less stuffed than before. The traffic jam seems to be high in her throat. :confused:
 
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