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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I found yesterday a pigeon with trichomoniasis in advanced stage. There are some deposits in mouth, yet the bigger problem seems to be respiratory, it has lot of liquid in respiratory tracts, breath with sound (like a human with runny nose). I'm afraid to not die suffocated.

I gave him metronidazole (an excessive dose, by mistake, around 60 mg).

What can I do to save him?


Here is a movie of him when looking better, now the liquid filled his eyes and is in worse state:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyQC-OtFiuU
 

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Well you couldn't really see anything in his beak from that video. Do you know what his weight is? A youngster can get 25 to 30 ml of Metro daily, and an adult about 50. Is he eating and drinking? If not you need to hand feed him, keep him warm, and give the once daily dose of metronidazole. It could also be more than just canker going on.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Well you couldn't really see anything in his beak from that video. Do you know what his weight is? A youngster can get 25 to 30 ml of Metro daily, and an adult about 50. Is he eating and drinking? If not you need to hand feed him, keep him warm, and give the once daily dose of metronidazole. It could also be more than just canker going on.
Is a baby of around 200 gr. He is not eating by itself but strangely, when I try to feed him, he simulates or tries to take a grain or two, maybe because when I feed him I provoke pains to him, because of deposits in mouth. He drank some when I put him with the beak in water.



Do you know how can I remove the liquid to let him breath easily?
 

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What are you feeding him and how?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I gave him some wheat and barley as long as he seemed to accept (not forcing him), by puting grains in his beak.
 

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You need to get food into him. You can feed him frozen peas which have been defrosted and warmed under warm running water. Hold him on your lap and against your body. Come from behind his head with one hand and clasp the beak on either side. Open the beak with your other hand and place a pea in. Push it over the tongue to the back of his throat and let him close his beak and swallow. If he spits it out, then it wasn't pushed far enough back. Give him 30 to 40 peas for one feeding, and wait till the crop empties before feeding him again. Probably 2 or 3 times a day. Also leave him with some peas so that he will eventually practice picking them up and he will eventually learn to eat. You can leave some seed with him too, if he is drinking on his own. And of course a small dish of water. Keep him warm and give the Metro after a feeding, as it is better to give on a full crop, as it can make them nauseous. If he does vomit anyway, then giving him a couple of drops of Pepto Bismul 30 min. before feeding or medicating will usually hellp to stop it. The peas are easily digested and softer going down.
 

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I have little experience with canker, but from what I read here in PT, the canker growths could be inside the pigeon as well, blocking his food passage. In that case, I don't think giving peas would be a good idea. The peas can get stuck in the blockage. I feel the best would be liquid food, or very small grains if that's not possible. Please correct me if this is wrong.
Metronidazole has some margin for overdosage, so what you gave (60mg) is not dangerous.
I feel you can continue with the metronidazole for 14 days, and keep the pigeon well fed and warm. Will the right support, he can make it.
All the best!
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thank you for advices!

Yes, he drinks on his own and he eats barley with apparent wish, when I put it in his beak, even pick some grains by his own. For now, the sounds of gurgling liquid inside him has stopped. He made a decen amount of droppings too, some wattery but several solid.
 

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Often it is better to give the first dose on the high side, than lower it. I would treat for 7 to 10 days and see how he is. The defrosted peas are soft and squishy, and don't usually have a problem with them. They are also easier for someone to feed who is not experienced with feeding.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Often it is better to give the first dose on the high side, than lower it. I would treat for 7 to 10 days and see how he is. The defrosted peas are soft and squishy, and don't usually have a problem with them. They are also easier for someone to feed who is not experienced with feeding.
After few days with no result of amelioration, I came to the conclusion that might be a bacterial infection, so I started to give him antibiotics. From that overdose, or perhaps because he was still young and had not flight experience, he now has not good control of his movement, like he's a little dizzy (someone told me that the overdose affects the liver and trully, the droppings became intense green and more wattery). He flies anyway. Unfortunately, eats little.
 

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The pigeon is starving and the droppings you are seeing are from his internal organs breaking down to feed him. The dizzy movement you described are likely from dehydration and lack of food. I promise you, he will die if you don't hand feed him. It may already be too late but you can try.
The pigeon does have canker infection. That much is evident by the lack of feathers on the neck. Please continue with the canker medicine. He needs the medicine and the food to get well.
We have been saving pigeons for a long time here and you need to listen to us for the sake of the pigeon.

You can hand feed defrosted peas. Run some hot water over them until they are defrosted and slightly warmed. They will nourish and help hydrated the pigeon.

Put the bird on your lap and hold it next to your body. If it helps because you are having a hard time handling the pigeon, you can wrap a towel around it or put it in the sleeve of a tee shirt, with the head out the wrist. This method confines the pigeon without hurting him and makes it easier to handle. Gently open the beak and pop a pea at the back of the mouth and over the throat. It gets easier and faster, with practice, for both you and the bird.
You will need to feed 30-40 per feeding [depending on the size of the pigeon] and every time the crop empties until you know the baby is eating on his own. After a couple of feedings, most squeakers get the hang of it, pick up the peas on their own and naturally transition into a seed diet.
The crop is located below the throat and above the keel bone, which is in the center of the bird. When full, it fills like a little balloon and feels lumpy from the peas.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
The pigeon is starving and the droppings you are seeing are from his internal organs breaking down to feed him. The dizzy movement you described are likely from dehydration and lack of food. I promise you, he will die if you don't hand feed him. It may already be too late but you can try.
I'm hand feeding him as much as he accepts (if turns the head back or struggle, I stop). Today I took him to a veterinary who said he doesn't look bad (the video is few days old).

The pigeon does have canker infection. That much is evident by the lack of feathers on the neck. Please continue with the canker medicine. He needs the medicine and the food to get well.
We have been saving pigeons for a long time here and you need to listen to us for the sake of the pigeon.
That sounds like useful info. Anyway, apparently metronidazole didn't help him. I will try 2-3 days with antibiotics and if not results either, I will return to metro.

You can hand feed defrosted peas. Run some hot water over them until they are defrosted and slightly warmed. They will nourish and help hydrated the pigeon.
I will do this.

Put the bird on your lap and hold it next to your body. If it helps because you are having a hard time handling the pigeon, you can wrap a towel around it or put it in the sleeve of a tee shirt, with the head out the wrist. This method confines the pigeon without hurting him and makes it easier to handle. Gently open the beak and pop a pea at the back of the mouth and over the throat. It gets easier and faster, with practice, for both you and the bird.
Is not the first pigeon I take care of, there were tens and I know how to feed them (from technical pov).

You will need to feed 30-40 per feeding [depending on the size of the pigeon] and every time the crop empties until you know the baby is eating on his own. After a couple of feedings, most squeakers get the hang of it, pick up the peas on their own and naturally transition into a seed diet.
I think is at least four weeks old and at this age he already can eat seeds, but I will try with peas too, maybe he likes them.
 

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Please return to the metro now. With severe infections often you won't notice a difference for 5 days or longer. You can also give the antibiotic. It is common for the canker to cause a bacterial infection.

When you feed the peas, this is a totally new experience for the pigeon and he will resist until he figures out you are making him feel better. The point is this...don't just stop because he may resist. He need the food and hydration. He's too sick for seed, may not know how to eat and the peas will help hydrate him. If the bird hasn't been eating, it doesn't mater how good a vet tech thinks he looks, I promise you...he is not in good shape.
 

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You don't stop feeding him because he is resisting. He doesn't know what he needs. As Charis has mentioned, the green droppings are from starvation. If you don't get enough into him, he will die. One dose of 60 mg. of Metro didn't overdose him. But it does take several days to see the canker getting better. If you stop the Metro, he is going to go downhill fast. You can give both antibiotic and Metro, so do both. I know he can eat seed, but as you said, he isn't eating so you need to feed him the peas. And if you stop because he fights you, then he won't get enough to keep him alive long enough to cure him.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
Please return to the metro now. With severe infections often you won't notice a difference for 5 days or longer. You can also give the antibiotic. It is common for the canker to cause a bacterial infection.
This is the first night he doesn't have the eyelids stuck from the liquid coming from inside (previous morning, he couldn't open his eyes, I had to moisten them). I think what he has is mycoplasmosis or maybe a combination between mycoplamosis and trichomoniasis, although only in first day he had some small deposits in mouth.

When you feed the peas, this is a totally new experience for the pigeon and he will resist until he figures out you are making him feel better. The point is this...don't just stop because he may resist. He need the food and hydration. He's too sick for seed, may not know how to eat and the peas will help hydrate him. If the bird hasn't been eating, it doesn't mater how good a vet tech thinks he looks, I promise you...he is not in good shape.
I feed him peas few hours ago and he didn't seem enchanted. He drank some water and ate barley both given by me and on its own. He seem to like barley. He's not emaciated but has a normal weight.


You don't stop feeding him because he is resisting. He doesn't know what he needs. As Charis has mentioned, the green droppings are from starvation. If you don't get enough into him, he will die. One dose of 60 mg. of Metro didn't overdose him. But it does take several days to see the canker getting better. If you stop the Metro, he is going to go downhill fast. You can give both antibiotic and Metro, so do both. I know he can eat seed, but as you said, he isn't eating so you need to feed him the peas. And if you stop because he fights you, then he won't get enough to keep him alive long enough to cure him.
I'm reluctant to feed him forcedly as I killed another pigeon by trying to forcedly give him water.
 

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Giving water is different. If you send it down the wrong pipe, you will aspirate the bird.
He doesn't have to be enchanted. He just needs to get enough food into him, which you won't do by feeding barley. His droppings turned intense green. That is from starvation. He also has canker. You came on here and asked for help. But you have done nothing but argue about the advice we have given you. So since you seem to know so much more, than why ask for help? Why not just take care of him yourself?
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Giving water is different. If you send it down the wrong pipe, you will aspirate the bird.
He doesn't have to be enchanted. He just needs to get enough food into him, which you won't do by feeding barley. His droppings turned intense green. That is from starvation. He also has canker. You came on here and asked for help. But you have done nothing but argue about the advice we have given you. So since you seem to know so much more, than why ask for help? Why not just take care of him yourself?
I'm starting to realize that you, who answered me on this thread, are right. I gave him some 20 peas and he also ate by his own some barley. The droppings have no more that lively color, some were solid, as at a healthy bird. Unfortunately, his respiratory problems advanced, sometimes he opens the mouth like he has no air. I started giving him again metronidazole.
 

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Please give the Metro for another 7 days at least and see how he does. You can't start it and stop it, because that allows the trichomonads to get stronger. Okay?And keep him warm.
 

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Hi Andrei, I saw your post and as I have some experience with canker in pigeons I want to tell you that 60mg of Metronidazole it is not overdosed in severe cases of canker (trichomoniasis). You must start again giving Metronidazole.
In my opinion it is a severe cases of canker but besides it can also be a bacterial infection, mycoplasmosis can be as you said. Please you need to start again Metronidazole, you have to give 30 mg per day but not in a single dose, give 15 mg of Metronidazole every 12 hours. The antibiotic should use Enrofloxacin, go to any veterinary clinic and buy Enrofloxacin 5mg pills and immediately started giving one tablet (5mg) every 12 hours.

Dana
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Hi Andrei, I saw your post and as I have some experience with canker in pigeons I want to tell you that 60mg of Metronidazole it is not overdosed in severe cases of canker (trichomoniasis). You must start again giving Metronidazole.
In my opinion it is a severe cases of canker but besides it can also be a bacterial infection, mycoplasmosis can be as you said. Please you need to start again Metronidazole, you have to give 30 mg per day but not in a single dose, give 15 mg of Metronidazole every 12 hours. The antibiotic should use Enrofloxacin, go to any veterinary clinic and buy Enrofloxacin 5mg pills and immediately started giving one tablet (5mg) every 12 hours.
Dana
I think that an overdose of metro is dangerous, I've read on the websites of some bird veterinaries that can lead to uncoordination and death and trully the pigeon looked uncoordinated afterward and in a bad condition. Meicaments are toxic things, should be used with prudence and I wasn't enough aware of this. It still didn't recovered from the effect of the overdose but his respiratory problem for moment looks like is going well. He received a lincomycin injection and I continued with small doses of metronidazole, probably around the quantity you say.
 
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