[bzagor]

Hello,

One of my pigeons outside seems to be sick, but I don't know with what. She is a young bird, 3 or 4 months old. Here are the symptoms:

-fluffed up constantly
-docile- likes to be rubbed even though normally she would be scared of that
-I can feel her keel and it sticks out visibly, but she is not skinny
-kind of wobbly when I pick her up
-very light weight compared to other birds
-has been sitting in a position where she is still standing on both feet, but very fluffed up and low hanging wings- rectangular shape on top (she has never laid an egg/does not have a mate yet, but looks like she is in that nesting position with her back hanging over)
-extremely watery, yellow/gold droppings that smell very acidic- no solids in them
-gray colored feet (she has always had grayish colored feet and I heard they are supposed to be cherry red to indicate health)
-not interested in eating so far (just brought her in to the house last night)
-did drink water when presented to her

I am watching her closely and have her near the heat. I've checked the inside of her mouth, and it appears very normal. Her breath is not bad either. I'm going to go out and get some frozen corn and peas to hand feed her. Does anyone think they might know what illness this could be? There are so many that have diarrhea as a symptom.

 

[AlicjanPip]

Hello,

One of my pigeons outside seems to be sick, but I don't know with what. She is a young bird, 3 or 4 months old. Here are the symptoms:

-fluffed up constantly
-docile- likes to be rubbed even though normally she would be scared of that
-I can feel her keel and it sticks out visibly, but she is not skinny
-kind of wobbly when I pick her up
-very light weight compared to other birds
-has been sitting in a position where she is still standing on both feet, but very fluffed up and low hanging wings- rectangular shape on top (she has never laid an egg/does not have a mate yet, but looks like she is in that nesting position with her back hanging over)
-extremely watery, yellow/gold droppings that smell very acidic- no solids in them
-gray colored feet (she has always had grayish colored feet and I heard they are supposed to be cherry red to indicate health)
-not interested in eating so far (just brought her in to the house last night)
-did drink water when presented to her

I am watching her closely and have her near the heat. I've checked the inside of her mouth, and it appears very normal. Her breath is not bad either. I'm going to go out and get some frozen corn and peas to hand feed her. Does anyone think they might know what illness this could be? There are so many that have diarrhea as a symptom.

Hi Bzagor...I'm sorry to hear your birds sick
I'm not sure what to tell you. Lower hanging wings points to salmonella, and yellow droppings indicate something to do with the liver, I believe...like maybe the sickness called 'adenovirus', which affects young birds.

http://www.racingpigeonmall.com/loft/articles/adeno-virus.html

Her posture, with her backside sort of hanging down, can mean she's uncomfortable/in pain internally...its like a hunched kind of pose, hey? Its good though she's got a clear mouth and her breathing's ok.

Is there a vet nearby you can take her to?
I'm at a loss as to what to suggest. If it is salmonella or adenovirus, you'll need to treat her with antibiotics, as this thing brings with it secondary illnesses. After the antibiotics, if she recovers, she'll need her immune system lifted up fast. If not vitamin supplements, then garlic and apple cider vinegar...something to cleanse her inside.

Where do you live?
I don't know if you have this product - KD7 Powder by Dr Rob Marshall - but by golly, its a miracle powder/intestinal cleanser...I give it to my birds for 3 days (3 consecutive days is the max...it holds them up until diagnosis & treatment is established) at the first sign of illness and it picks them up straight away...I live in Australia.

Keep her warm, hydrated and fed until a vet sees to her.

 

[bzagor]

Hi AlicjanPip,
Thanks so much for your response. Yeah the hunched appearance is how you described. I have been searching all morning and came to think it could be salmonella or/with liver damage from the yellow stool. I've been keeping her warm, and have been running the shower to humidify the room. I fed her warm peas and corn, but she won't drink much water. I ran out of ACV so I do need to go to the store and get more of that. If she is not drinking water though, is there a manual way to administer it? (syringe feeding?) or is that a bad idea? I want to try to avoid taking her to the yet because of my financial situation. I do have Batrill in syringes left over from the last time I went to see the vet with a baby who unfortunately didn't make it. Here is the dosage:

I have 5 syringes, each has 0.03ml of Baytril. Would you recommend I administer it?

Also, for the future, do you have a recommendation of a website to purchase pigeon antibiotics/medicines for potential illnesses? When I saw the vet last time we had to pay $300 just for the visit and the Baytril (it was more too because we had to go at night, so it was an emergency fee).

Thanks again!

Brittany

 

[AlicjanPip]

Hi AlicjanPip,
Thanks so much for your response. Yeah the hunched appearance is how you described. I have been searching all morning and came to think it could be salmonella or/with liver damage from the yellow stool. I've been keeping her warm, and have been running the shower to humidify the room. I fed her warm peas and corn, but she won't drink much water. I ran out of ACV so I do need to go to the store and get more of that. If she is not drinking water though, is there a manual way to administer it? (syringe feeding?) or is that a bad idea? I want to try to avoid taking her to the yet because of my financial situation. I do have Batrill in syringes left over from the last time I went to see the vet with a baby who unfortunately didn't make it. Here is the dosage:

I have 5 syringes, each has 0.03ml of Baytril. Would you recommend I administer it?

Also, for the future, do you have a recommendation of a website to purchase pigeon antibiotics/medicines for potential illnesses? When I saw the vet last time we had to pay $300 just for the visit and the Baytril (it was more too because we had to go at night, so it was an emergency fee).

Thanks again!

Brittany

Hey Brittany, you're welcome, I wish I could tell you what to do, but I don't know, I don't want to mess things up for you if I'm wrong.
Yes, the hunched position is something I'm familiar with. Our little guy hd Coccidiosis/Salmonella/Ecoli in June and the first thing that came about was the pained hunched posture...we called it the Grandfather pose.
We were told to use Baytril back then, but it worked zip, so we switched to a Sulfa AVS/Megamix cocktail. Sulfa AVS is a combo of Trimethoprim (80mg per gr) and Sulfadiazine (400mg per gr), and it was 5grams (one teaspoon) to 2 litres. Megamix is another of Dr Rob Marshall's miracles, an acid cleanser which aids recovery time. And this helped.

If you can feel its keel, it could be a bad case of coccidiossis as well. All these diseases just seem to intertwine. We go nuts over here trying to get our Pip on the right track.

Its a yes to syringe feeding, absolutely. Hydration is vital. Any electrolytes/vitamin b (stress relief), energy boosts supplements on hand? Make sure the syringe is clean first, and try it out first above the sink, see if its smooth flowing. Sometimes it gets stunted, and you pump, pump, pump, nothing then whoosh, it hits the bird, and can drown it.
But yes, its all good. We did the syringing with both liquid and soft food for our bird. Several times a day. Don't overfeed, just normal feed. Overfeeding when sick oftentimes finished a lot of our birds off.

The ACV would be great.

I don't know what to suggest about the Baytril syringes. Are they recent and uncontaminated from the previous bird? Acting fast is good. If she's not too weak already...:/

Have you heard of Allicin Garlic Capsules? Apparently they're meant to be super, antibacterial, antifungal, anti[arasitic...like a natural antibiotic, immune booster. 'Skyeking', a member on here, just recommended them for my bird.

 

[AlicjanPip]

Hi AlicjanPip,
Thanks so much for your response. Yeah the hunched appearance is how you described. I have been searching all morning and came to think it could be salmonella or/with liver damage from the yellow stool. I've been keeping her warm, and have been running the shower to humidify the room. I fed her warm peas and corn, but she won't drink much water. I ran out of ACV so I do need to go to the store and get more of that. If she is not drinking water though, is there a manual way to administer it? (syringe feeding?) or is that a bad idea? I want to try to avoid taking her to the yet because of my financial situation. I do have Batrill in syringes left over from the last time I went to see the vet with a baby who unfortunately didn't make it. Here is the dosage:

I have 5 syringes, each has 0.03ml of Baytril. Would you recommend I administer it?

Also, for the future, do you have a recommendation of a website to purchase pigeon antibiotics/medicines for potential illnesses? When I saw the vet last time we had to pay $300 just for the visit and the Baytril (it was more too because we had to go at night, so it was an emergency fee).

Thanks again!

Brittany[/QUOTE]


She's such a sweet looking bird, awww poor thing. No, she doesn't look happy, and gosh that posture gives me stress everytime I see it.
In terms of websites...if you're in the US, try this http://www.siegelpigeons.com/catalog.html

http://www.healthypigeons.com/

And if you're in Australia, then Dr Rob Marshall's vetanarian clinic has great products, from emergency to treatments...don't know if they do shipments overseas.

http://birdhealth.com.au/index.php?route=product/category&path=20
and Dr Colin Walkers products...http://www.auspigeonco.com.au/

 

[bzagor]

Hi AlicjanPip,

Thanks for all of your advice! I am going to look into purchasing this "Sulfa AVS/Megamix cocktail" to try to treat for Coccidiosis. I saw someone recommended to use Amprolium on another post- do you happen to know anything about that one? I looked over both of the websites you suggested and they look great! Thank you for all your help! Btw- sorry I forgot to answer- I live in California.

All day I have been hand feeding her corn and peas, and started out by feeding her some basic water. Since I last posted though I gave her one of the 0.03 mg of Baytril, and about an hour after, she threw up some of the corn and peas. Since then I have been syringe feeding her a small mixture of Pedialite and ACV. She hates it, and I don't blame her. I cut up half a clove of garlic into three small pieces and hand fed her that too. I've been keeping the room warm and full of moisture by running the shower for 15 min and steaming up the room. But- I just read something that made me think maybe that could be a bad idea because of the possible Coccidiosis? What do you think? I read some information that seems like her main sickness might point to an Adeno Coli Infection- especially since she is under a year old. The reason the stool is yellow may be that it has started to affect the liver. I read that if it is Adeno Coli, she could clear up in a week, but her flying ability would forever be compromised by the virus.

Overall, she is still fluffed up and has been relaxing all day. She taps her wing when I get close to say 'be warned!' so I think that is probably a good sign since it shows she is not so completely out of it. Her poop has changed slightly. The white has been growing- so more uric acid? and the last time I observed, she pooped fluid yellow stool/with white but with a tiny fingernail sized brown solid piece. I figure that is a good sign? I dunno.

Thanks again!!!!!!

 

[AlicjanPip]

Hello, you're very welcome, I hope your bird recovers! The Sulfa AVS is an antibiotic, which you mix in with Megamix (they're 2 separate products that complement each other). The KD7 is brilliant too, as is Quickgel. They've come though for our birds many a time.

Amprolium...I'm not sure of that one. My sister says its a fungal treatment thing, but I read somewhere its for coccidiosis too. In regards to the warm shower thing being bad for Coccidiosis, I've never heard of that at all, hmm...steam and warmth are great for respiratory problems...warmth is good all round. You're doing great. Its a stressful, time and money consuming thing, I know.

The ACV will cleanse your birds insides, and the garlic is a blood cleanser/antibacterial/antifungal...keep going with those two, I'd say. I don't believe you can go wrong with nature. More so nature than meds.

I also think the possibility here is Adenovirus, considering the symptoms and age, :/ well, its the first thing that came to mind when I read your posting yesterday.

Poop stuff. Urine is the liquid/clear stuff. Urates is the white stuff, which 'caps' the poops in healthy poops. And the faeces part is the coloured part.
Yay for the small piece of brown poop!
It might very well be a good sign, fingers crossed, maybe one of your treatments is beginning to work! Keep hydrating and feeding, slowly add more variety in like maybe in a day or two...when our bird was majorly sick, we fed him bread (rolled into mini balls) coated with garlic oil/vitamin supplements...it helped him put on some weight fast.
Maybe so far, all your bird's been pooping has been urates and urine, minus the faeces?...the yellow, gosh, why yellow? :/ liver, kidneys....gah.
Let know how things go for you and the featherball

 

[bzagor]

Thanks so much!! I am worried though, I woke up this morning and she was throwing up more. She hasn't been able to keep anything down. One weird thing in particular is that she started vomiting seeds- meaning food from 2 days ago. What is this a sign of? I've been continuing to feed her Pedilyte and ACV and keep her warm. She just flew over to the window to watch her pigeon buddies outside.

 

[bzagor]

Also her feet seem to be more pink which is supposed to be a good sign?

 

[AlicjanPip]

Hello!
I'm liking the fact she flew over to a window and her feet are pinkish again, woohoo! Yes thats a good sign, kind of like her bloods circulating better. Are you still giving her the Baytril or not?

I'd say carry on with the ACV and garlic pieces/garlic clove water. Maybe alternate every second day. Keep feeding her, hydrating.

The vomiting of seeds...seeds from a few days back...this makes me wonder if she's perhaps been sick cause of a crop related problem. Maybe impacted crop, sour...and it started to get infectious???? Vomiting cleanses, gets rids of what the body is repelling so...

The ACV and garlic will be super in keeping her bacteria free...
Hows her posture looking when she sits/rests?

Poops????

 

[kunju]

If her crop has food inside, please stop any more feeding till the crop empties fully. With a dropper or a syringe (take care to give water slowly), give her around 5 ml of warm water (with applesauce or ACV in it if possible), and massage the crop really well. Continue the procedure like every 2 hours, till the crop empties.
Yellow in the poop can also be a symptom of canker. Once the crop is empty, please give her a dose of metronidazole for canker. You can give a dose of around 80 mg as the first dose, then gradually reduce to 50 mg in a day.Canker needn't necessarily be inside the mouth, it can be present inside the crop causing slow crop. There are also other possible reasons for sour crop like bacterial and yeast infections, it is difficult to say which is causing the symptoms.

If the crop is slow, in my experience it is best to avoid large seeds and corn and peas. Once you are sure the crop is empty, give her 3-4 small seeds like every hour. And build it up from there. Or you can liquid-feed her, with soaked and grinded seeds. Very little at a time.
Metronidazole is for canker, baytril is for bacterial infections, Nystatin is for yeast infections. The baytril you have in the form of injections, is it as 10% solution? The dosage for baytril is 3 drops of the 10% solution, so I think the 0.03 ml would be fine.
Did you start with any antibiotics yet?

 

[kunju]

ACV and garlic are really good, but if you feel you might be losing your bird, I suggest starting on antibiotics and like I mentioned, metro and nystatin. Nystatin and antiobiotics should be given with an interval of 3-4 hrs between them. Nystatin is best given on empty crop.
Keeping her on a heat pad will also help to get the crop moving. Keep doing the crop massages with warm water. Wish you the best.

 

[bzagor]

Hello guys,
Here is an update! She pooped!!! Lots of healthy looking greenish/brown poop! YAY!!!!!! Hey Kunju- I got your message just now, so let me know if you think it still applies to empty her crop! All day we just gave her liquids only (ACV and Pedilyte), and then around 4pm she passed some actual poop- so even though I didn't massage her crop- I am assuming it did need to empty fully (unless you think it's possible it still hasn't- I have no idea), and am predicting it should be emptied by now since she hasn't thrown for a 6 hours or so. After she pooped, I started feeding her a piece of garlic, and soft corn. I will mash up some seeds and warm water solution like you mentioned. She's been keeping warm, and sleeping a lot. She is still hunched over, but it doesn't seem to be as bad as before? She is occasionally slightly opening her beak to breathe- but it seems to have stopped in the past 2 hours. She jumped onto the floor during the day and curled up in a spot in the corner. Recently she hopped over to sit near the heater on the floor and is sleeping. She seems super tired...I gave her one of the shots of 0.03 Baytril yesterday night, but didn't follow up and give more yet. Do you think I should continue or do you think she is over the worst part? I am not sure what concentration it is. The vet gave me it originally to help a tiny baby pigeon who had an air sac infection-sadly she didn't make it

Seriously, thank you both so much for your help!!!!

 

[kunju]

Glad that she is pooping brown poop, it means her digestive system is through. I think one day of no food but only ACV water did her good.
For example, if there is canker inside her crop which is obstructing the food from moving further, the crop issue is not going to resolve unless we treat for canker. You might think the crop is now empty and all is well, and feed her again, but this food also gets stuck if the canker is still there. So what I suggest is: Give her liquid food, in very small amounts, and see how her crop is emptying and poops are forming. Give her metronidazole asap if you haven't already started. The first dose of metronidazole itself can bring noticeable improvement if it is canker.
Do give the baytril. One syringe per day (I am assuming it is 10% solution of enrofloxacin inside it, am I right?).
Keep her warm. If you can put her in a small box with heating pad, it would be best. If she is warm and hydrated, she has much better chances of pulling through this.

 

[bzagor]

Thanks so much for the help! I do not have metronidazole on hand. Is there a place you would reccomend to purchase it? I saw some med/no perscription online places carry it, but free shipping is 14 days from Canada. When I do get the Flagyl, do I crush it up? 1 per day? I am new to bird meds. I gave her another dose of the Baytril 0.03ml ; the label says it is "Enrofloxacin 22.7mg/ml". She is still pooping ok so far, but is still very weak and tired.

 

[Jay3]

That bird is very sick. Could be Salmonella.

 

[kunju]

If it is salmonella, I guess the baytril will help for it.

I know that metronidazole is also used by humans. Other medicines which can be used for canker are ronidazole and spartix. Regarding where to buy it, sorry I can't help. Hope someone else can give you information on this.
Glad that he is pooping. You can increase the food gradually, checking the crop for emptying each time. Since his digestive system is just getting back to normal, we don't want to overstress it. Hope he is kept warm.

 

[AlicjanPip]

Thanks so much for the help! I do not have metronidazole on hand. Is there a place you would reccomend to purchase it? I saw some med/no perscription online places carry it, but free shipping is 14 days from Canada. When I do get the Flagyl, do I crush it up? 1 per day? I am new to bird meds. I gave her another dose of the Baytril 0.03ml ; the label says it is "Enrofloxacin 22.7mg/ml". She is still pooping ok so far, but is still very weak and tired.

Hi! How's it all going???? I'm so thrilled about the poops changing, super job on your part
Metronidazole is actually Flagyl...the two are the same. We have them here too, on our bottle it says 'one time' treatment, one tablet form, which for my smaller birds I have to crack in half before giving. No crushing recquired. This medicine is for canker, dry and/or wet form. So is Ronidazole (which is in the product called Turbozole), and Spartrix, etc.

The ACV won't cure canker, but it will slow or stop its progression, which is a good thing when you're waiting for the Flagyl.

Baytril usually causes yeast, which can be treated by probiotics, acv and garlic once the medication is stopped. That's why I'm wary of using meds...they help one thing but mess something else up...least from my experience.

Hows her appetite, behaviour and poops going now? Her breathing? Is she preening/cleaning herself? Showing interest in her surroundings more?

I'm thinking you can take her into the sunshine for a bit...energy from the sun vitamin d, a mood lifter. My birds love the sun. On rainy days they look depressed, but in the sun, they perk up, fan their tails and wings, pancake themselves and nap...granted not too much sun, hehehe, watch for panting, overheating.

I'd say she's doing great. On reading about the yellow poops at first, I thought she was a goner to be honest, but look at the change.
Keep doing what you're doing, time's a healer.

 

[kunju]

How's she doing today?

 

[bzagor]

Hi everyone,
Guavas died a couple days after our correspondence and I was too upset to reply I thought all along she was getting better since her poop improved, but then that night I was woken up to hear her flapping around on the floor. I picked her up and saw that both of her legs were not working so she was scared and trying to get comfortable. It must have been horrifying for her. I took her into the bathroom and laid out a sleeping place in the shower with hot water bottles and towels to keep her in place. She didn't look good, and I thought there was a good chance her body was going to shut down that night. The next morning I woke up to find her dead- her body still warm from the water bottles It was so horrible and sad- she tried so hard and was such a sweet bird. We buried her outside. Let me know what you think, but I assume that it is PMV because of the weird leg thing. I just hope she wasn't in pain when she passed.

Thanks for all of your guys help and reaching out. It is so great to have people to talk to in this community!