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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hello everyone, could you please help me with a few advices? A month ago, I found this sick pingeon on the street, he was trying to fly, but couldn't. I took him home. He didn't manage to eat by himself, so I thought he was a baby, so I fed him. After 5 days, some breeders told me he wasn't a baby, but a mature bird sick with paramyxo. They said there isnt a treatment for this, so following their advices, I gave him Enteroguard for 5 days (active substances: Metronidazole 10 g/100 g; Oxytetracycline hydrochloride 6 g/100 g; Furazolidone 2 g/100 g; Bismuth subnitrate 2 g/100 g) and I continued feeding him multivitamins, B complex, seeds, corn, wheat, nuts, peanuts, beans, rice etc. To cure his liver, I added rattle herb tea, garlic, oregano at times. After 2 days of treatment, his poop was solid and he could manage to scratch his back a little (he couldn't before). He didn't twist his neck though, like other paramyxo sick pingeons do. Other than that, he had no other improvements for 3 weeks, he was also going light,no matter how much I was feeding him. One time he took a big greenish poop, like a huge one. Then, after 3 weeks, I took him with me on the couch and he made a poop ith bubbles. Then I noticed a limp at his right foot. I suspected salmonella. Since I'm living in a small town of Romania, there are no analysis laboratory, so I ran to the vet and he gave me lincospectin mixed with vitamins and calcium. The treatment must have been too weak (i didn't inject it), for his symptoms aggravated and, after 3 days, he couldn't walk with the right foot anymore. So I decided to switch on ernofloxacin (10 days treatment) and I gave him 5 ml/l for the first 3 days, 3 times bigger dose than the recommended one. On the 4rth day, he received 3 ml/l and then 2 ml/l till the end of treatment. He still has 3 days to go. To protect his liver, I gave him green herbs: parsley, dill, salad and a pinch of herbal human liverprotector LIV52 twice a day. On the 3rd day he made candidosis, so he receives 1/4 human nystatin once a day. On the 5th day, I gave him a few drinks of chefir and 4-5 balls of parmesan (I heard it has probiotic bacterias Streptococcus thermophilus). Since salmonella eats sugar, I fed him seeds low on sugar: mainly flaxseeds and sesame with salad and green herbs. I'm treating his foot with rivanol and coconut oil, he seems to walk better now, even though his foot is still a bit swollen. During the treatment, everithing was cleaned and disinfected with good solutions daily, the places where he sleeps, even his feet were washed with water and apple cider vinegar. Improvements: he walks better, he cleans himself with ease, he flapped his wings a few times, as if hes flying, he's more active, his head is not trembling when turned anymore. Still he can't eat by himself, doesn't fly. Seems like the desease afftected the brain side responsible ith the sight or something. His poop is solid, still green from the herb at times, sometimes brown. I was wondering, are there any chances for him to recover and start eating by himself again? How long does it take for him to begin eating and flying, should it be during the treatment or maybe it takes more weeks? Since I don't have probiotics in my town, can I keep on feeding him chefir, parmesan, and, after the treatment is over, I was thinking about a schedule with apple cidre in his water a day, followed by vitamins in water the next day and B complex + chefir and parmesan to restore the flora. What about a few drops of propolis in water after the antbiotic treatment is over, will the alcohol affect him? Could you please give me some advices? Thank you so much!
 

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Those symptoms: big green poop, limping, are typical for advanced coccidiosis, which is an enteritis, an infection of the small intestine.

This disease rarely stands alone, most often is accompanied by intestinal canker (trichomonosiasis) and soon by crop complications, in this way:

The perforation of small intestine by coccidia and trichomonas makes it unable to digest hard food (seeds). So the seeds that the bird has eaten are filling the intestine and block it. As a consequence, the gissard also become filled and blocked with seeds (or other kind of food) and finally the crop as well. The fact that the food stagnates in crop favorizes the yeast / gunfus called Candida, which starts to grow rapidly and causes a complete blocking of crop's passage to gissard. As a consequence, not even water passes from crop into gissard. In most cases, bird dies sufffocated with the water from crop: the water that accumulates in crop reaches the mouth when the crop is accidentally presed (bird falling on belly, careless manipulation by rescuer). From mouth, the water enters the trachea and lungs through the vent on the tongue. The water causes bird weakness which in turn leads to even more water lung intake, by that the bird cannot stands on his/ her legs, fall onto belly or drink water carelessly making it directly enter the trachea. This is the death in 90% of cases.


In some less frequent cases, the dehydration and starvation brings the bird to an exhaustion and stress that made his/her immunity collapse. Salmonella and other bacteria then invade the organism and in few days or even few hours leads to sepsis and sudden death.

Other less frequent possibility is that candida kills the bird by invading the organism and reaching the brain or other vital organ.

I saw 200-300 cases from the first type of complication & death, around 20-30 from second (bacterial sepsis) and aound 4 cases of death by invasive candida, all starting from coccidiosis or coccidiosis + canker enteritis. This is the most frequent type of disease of pigeons in Romania and probably in many other parts of the world.


Saving such a bird is dificult. You have to take measures to not let bird reach tthe exhaustion point, if this hasn't already happened, because when weak, it won't be able to mantain the equilibrum andwill fall onto belly and suffocate with water from crop. You need to make him / her a best with a soft cloth disposed circularly, helping him/her stand in vertical position with a minimal pressing of crop. Often, both medicines for coccidiosis and canker must be done, as both diseases are present. Is the diarrhea is rather light colored (toward grey, light green etc), medicines for canker should be given first. If the droppings are dark green, medicines for coccidiosis should be given first. For coccidiosis, the only working medicine in Romania is coccistop, manufactured by Pasteur Institute. Romvac has a similar product called Sulfacoccirom but drugs made by Romvac should not be bought, as in last years they become deeply inefficient, probably because the active substance is stolen by workers.

As crop is filled with food or food mingled with candida, the medicines given orally will not reach the intestine but remain in crop. In order to make medicines reach the blood system, crop should be washed by emptying from existing water, then introducing 4-7 ml of clean slightly warmed (not as cold as water at room temperature) water or water with vitamins in crop, gently massaging the lower part of the crop (trying to break appart the compacted food). Then, the water is extracted and the action is repeated 3-4 times, untill the small debris is washed away and only the seeds remain. The introduction of water is done with a syringe and tube attached to it. This procedure is called crop feeding and should be done very careful. If the tube doesn't slip by itself down the throat, it shouldn't be forced at all as will cause serious or fatal damage to throat. The tube must be an aspiration catheter (which has soft edges and later hole at the entering end) built from human technical - medical shops (you won't find it at common drugstores). These tubes comes in several sizez, with diameters ranging from ~3 to ~ 5 mm, each size bearing a code: FR6 is around 3 mm, FR8 around 4 mm and FR10 around 5 mm. A thinner tube is less stressful and more easily to introduce. Only the FR10 can be attached to a syringe so if you're going to use a FR6 or FR8, you should also buy a FR10 and put a small segment of this tube between syringe and the thinner tube, that is, you'll attach the FR10 segment to the syringe and the FR8 tube will be introduced a little in the FR10. If you're going to use a FR6, you put a FR10 segment, then a FR8 segment and the FR6 segment inside the for 8.

After washing the crop, you give the medicine ( normally half a pill of coccistop or the sixth part of a metronidazole tablet from human drugstore for an adult-sized bird) and make the bird drink or put water into crop so that the water will disolve the tablet and the medicine will run between seeds and get into gissard. As in a food-filled crop much of the medicine will remain there, you can slightly increase the dosage but not much, as if too much drug reach the organism, the toxicity of it will cause serious or fatal damage to liver. Most drugs are actually poisons that affect both the pathogen and the host, the bird in this case.

If you're going to give both coccistop and metronidazole, you should put a pause of at least 12 hours between them. For a very sick and weak bird, even 24 hours between medicines may be necessary.


If bacterial invasion took place, the only effective drug is injectable Lincomycin-Spectinomycin, that comes under various brand and names, like Lincospectin from Pasteur Institute, e.g. Oral antibiotics are not strong or fast enough.

The sick bird needs food at least as much as medicines. Food makes the organism support the effects of disease and the toxicity of medicine. But if the digestive tract is blocked with food, you should not give anything to eat until the crop is emptied, as a sign that the digerrstive system is functioning again. If hand feeding a bird, you always have to wait that the crop to be emptied, otherwise you're going to cause / worsen crop blockage.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Those symptoms: big green poop, limping, are typical for advanced coccidiosis, which is an enteritis, an infection of the small intestine.

This disease rarely stands alone, most often is accompanied by intestinal canker (trichomonosiasis) and soon by crop complications, in this way:

The perforation of small intestine by coccidia and trichomonas makes it unable to digest hard food (seeds). So the seeds that the bird has eaten are filling the intestine and block it. As a consequence, the gissard also become filled and blocked with seeds (or other kind of food) and finally the crop as well. The fact that the food stagnates in crop favorizes the yeast / gunfus called Candida, which starts to grow rapidly and causes a complete blocking of crop's passage to gissard. As a consequence, not even water passes from crop into gissard. In most cases, bird dies sufffocated with the water from crop: the water that accumulates in crop reaches the mouth when the crop is accidentally presed (bird falling on belly, careless manipulation by rescuer). From mouth, the water enters the trachea and lungs through the vent on the tongue. The water causes bird weakness which in turn leads to even more water lung intake, by that the bird cannot stands on his/ her legs, fall onto belly or drink water carelessly making it directly enter the trachea. This is the death in 90% of cases.


In some less frequent cases, the dehydration and starvation brings the bird to an exhaustion and stress that made his/her immunity collapse. Salmonella and other bacteria then invade the organism and in few days or even few hours leads to sepsis and sudden death.

Other less frequent possibility is that candida kills the bird by invading the organism and reaching the brain or other vital organ.

I saw 200-300 cases from the first type of complication & death, around 20-30 from second (bacterial sepsis) and aound 4 cases of death by invasive candida, all starting from coccidiosis or coccidiosis + canker enteritis. This is the most frequent type of disease of pigeons in Romania and probably in many other parts of the world.


Saving such a bird is dificult. You have to take measures to not let bird reach tthe exhaustion point, if this hasn't already happened, because when weak, it won't be able to mantain the equilibrum andwill fall onto belly and suffocate with water from crop. You need to make him / her a best with a soft cloth disposed circularly, helping him/her stand in vertical position with a minimal pressing of crop. Often, both medicines for coccidiosis and canker must be done, as both diseases are present. Is the diarrhea is rather light colored (toward grey, light green etc), medicines for canker should be given first. If the droppings are dark green, medicines for coccidiosis should be given first. For coccidiosis, the only working medicine in Romania is coccistop, manufactured by Pasteur Institute. Romvac has a similar product called Sulfacoccirom but drugs made by Romvac should not be bought, as in last years they become deeply inefficient, probably because the active substance is stolen by workers.

As crop is filled with food or food mingled with candida, the medicines given orally will not reach the intestine but remain in crop. In order to make medicines reach the blood system, crop should be washed by emptying from existing water, then introducing 4-7 ml of clean slightly warmed (not as cold as water at room temperature) water or water with vitamins in crop, gently massaging the lower part of the crop (trying to break appart the compacted food). Then, the water is extracted and the action is repeated 3-4 times, untill the small debris is washed away and only the seeds remain. The introduction of water is done with a syringe and tube attached to it. This procedure is called crop feeding and should be done very careful. If the tube doesn't slip by itself down the throat, it shouldn't be forced at all as will cause serious or fatal damage to throat. The tube must be an aspiration catheter (which has soft edges and later hole at the entering end) built from human technical - medical shops (you won't find it at common drugstores). These tubes comes in several sizez, with diameters ranging from ~3 to ~ 5 mm, each size bearing a code: FR6 is around 3 mm, FR8 around 4 mm and FR10 around 5 mm. A thinner tube is less stressful and more easily to introduce. Only the FR10 can be attached to a syringe so if you're going to use a FR6 or FR8, you should also buy a FR10 and put a small segment of this tube between syringe and the thinner tube, that is, you'll attach the FR10 segment to the syringe and the FR8 tube will be introduced a little in the FR10. If you're going to use a FR6, you put a FR10 segment, then a FR8 segment and the FR6 segment inside the for 8.

After washing the crop, you give the medicine ( normally half a pill of coccistop or the sixth part of a metronidazole tablet from human drugstore for an adult-sized bird) and make the bird drink or put water into crop so that the water will disolve the tablet and the medicine will run between seeds and get into gissard. As in a food-filled crop much of the medicine will remain there, you can slightly increase the dosage but not much, as if too much drug reach the organism, the toxicity of it will cause serious or fatal damage to liver. Most drugs are actually poisons that affect both the pathogen and the host, the bird in this case.

If you're going to give both coccistop and metronidazole, you should put a pause of at least 12 hours between them. For a very sick and weak bird, even 24 hours between medicines may be necessary.


If bacterial invasion took place, the only effective drug is injectable Lincomycin-Spectinomycin, that comes under various brand and names, like Lincospectin from Pasteur Institute, e.g. Oral antibiotics are not strong or fast enough.

The sick bird needs food at least as much as medicines. Food makes the organism support the effects of disease and the toxicity of medicine. But if the digestive tract is blocked with food, you should not give anything to eat until the crop is emptied, as a sign that the digerrstive system is functioning again. If hand feeding a bird, you always have to wait that the crop to be emptied, otherwise you're going to cause / worsen crop blockage.
Andrei, thank you for your reply. I'm afraid I can't empty his crop. I don't know how and don't have the courage. Assuming he has coccidosis+worms, should I give him 1/6 part of the human metronidazole pill once a day for coccidosis? For how many days? Two weeks back I gave him Enteroguard half pill for 5 days (it contains metronidazole), shouldn't it have cured the coccidosis already? I remember the green poop was before the treatment with Enteroguard. Also, assuming he has worms, what should I give him for that? Lincospectin should be better, but I don't know how to inject a bird. Where in Romania are you? Also, should I wait till I finish with the ernofloxacin treatment? Still have 3 days left out of 10 days of treatment. Ive never seen indigested seed parts in his poop and he takes lots of poops. His crop seems empty at times, but I'm not a specialist, its the first time Im dealing with a pingeon. Also, i noticed he scratches himself, but I blamed it on candidozis, coould it be worms causing the itch?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Update: Already bought Rombendazol for worms. Two more days of treatment with Ernofloxacin, still doesn't eat by himself. Anyone who dealt with Salmonella, how long did it take until nervous system recovered? I notice he doesn't have appetite, still skinny. Maybe he has worms, hope Rombendazol will help improve his condition.I could use some help here, I feel like I'm walking on broken glass with this lil fellow. :(
 
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