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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Background: I have 8 rescue pigeons, some disabled. Around mid june a few of them got sick and started throwing up and one of my boys lost his voice. I went to a more specialised lab in another town to get them tested and came back with chlamidia and canker diagnostics. I treated the canker first with ronidazole, then the chlamidia with ornisol (both vet recommended) - and soon after finishing both treatments two of them got neurological symptoms typical to PMV. They were not tested for it (vet diagnosed that based on movies with the symptoms) since I have no way to test for it in my town - one recovered after 2 weeks, another after 4. They were isolated together with their wives (both were male), but neither the wives or the rest of the flock got neurological symptoms. Most of them had the puddle of liquid with bits of poop in them that I understood are specific to PMV. From the first signs I gave them all the Lasota vaccine (drops in the eye and nose), with half the dose to the ones already with neurologica l symptoms (also vet prescribed). She told me that if they survive, to give them all the injectable vaccine.

About 2 months ago, the male that recovered in 2 weeks (also the one that started vomiting from june) started displaying respiratory issues similar to the ones he displayed when the whole story started: voice change and a kind of breathy sound. I took him to my regular vet - together with his wife, who listened to his lungs and said he hears a kind of bubbling sound. He also did an X-ray and said the lower half of the "hourglass" looks larger. He prescribed an antibiotic and nebulisation with dexamethasone and ACC. I'm not sure how much of the antibiotic was staying in him because it happened to be the honey-week and he was going to feed his wife minutes after we were giving him meds, but the respiratory symptoms dissapeared and the vet said he doesn't hear the bubbling anymore. As I fear there are still PMV viruses around my appartment (they free fly in my house), I decided to do the injectable vaccine about a week after finishing that treatment - and I vaccinated all. They had no symptoms after it.

However, some of their poops did not improve from last summer - they are still puddles of water with bits of poop in them, and for a few weeks they also have bubbles in their poops. The worst are the boy and the girl that vomited at the start (not his wife, and she did not get neurological symptoms despite being isolated with her husband that did). I took 2 of them to the vet - he took crop and fecal samples, and I got some lab results with various antibiotics testing. Unfortunatelly I don't think it's a specialised lab for birds, but I don't have access to one in my town and the one I went to last summer is not answering their phone anymore. Because it's probably a general lab, the antibiotics tested are human ones. The result says "e-coli" and I have a bunch of antibiotics listed with R,V and X - my vet said the V ones are the ones the strain is sensitive to, and prescribed them ciprofloxacine. I could only get human grade (the vet gave me a prescription for them) and for 3 days they had it in their water. I usually don't do water dosing, but it's nigh impossible to dose as a pill - I would need to split the pill into @30 and I'm bad with syringe administering in the crop&afraid to aspirate them. It would have also needed to be dosed twice a day for a week, and not all are friendly - 4 of them would give me a run for my money to catch them (I decided to treat all). The water is bitter as hell, but I've seen some of them drink, and considering the watery poops, I assume they all did. I'm adding liver protection too, which does not help the taste.

So far, I see no improvement. The bubbles are not consistent (when I took them to the vet for example they made perfect poops, probably to spite me), but they are often enough to give me the scares. I'm not convinced of that e-coli diagnostic, the stuff I got from the other lab had several bacterias listed with positive/negative, and I know pigeons carry an amount of e-coli normally. I did go ahead with the antibiotic hoping that it's broad enough to cover other stuff too. They behave normally - eat, drink, bathe, mate, nest , fly (the capable ones) and fight, but I get paranoid every time I see one resting. The bubbles seem to happen mostly during the day. Pics are from poops from the boy and girl I mentioned to be worst, taken today.

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Your description of the droppings (puddles of water with very little fecal matter) remind me of a very sick pigeon that I caught a while ago. He had both canker and yeast inside the throat. I couldn't save him and the yeast just got worse.

Why don't you isolate the one that is losing weight and start using some natural anti-yeast products. Give him acv in the drinking water, probiotics, handfeed pieces of garlic and little cinnamon balls.

Grapefruit seed extract is also a product you can use in the drinking water. Can you get hold of Medistatin (powdered Nystatin for pigeons)?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
The one loosing weight is married and sitting on eggs - I can't see any way to separate him, he would be stressed to no end to be away from his wife, to whom he is very attached (they kiss daily even outside honeyweek) - and to be honest, they all have similar poops for weeks - some better and some worse, but whatever it is, it's unlikely only he has it. I've searched for Nystatin in the past and didn't find it in my country. I did buy some fancy vinegar for pigeons with cinnamon extract - and he threw up every time I put it n the water. I actually tried adding it to another pigeon water that was using a separate bowl and he didn't touch it either. I've been adding a liver protection complex in their water and a mix of essential oils for respiratory health alternately, also some immunity booster powder in their feed. I did give him a little piece of garlic with a vitamin the day before yesterday, but I'm not sure on how often I can give that to him. He's dropped from 340 to 325ish (he flees from the counter too fast for me to see more than a second of it). I exhausted the options for testing - the more specialized lab from another town isn't answering their phone and I suspect the one I tried in my town doesn't really know how to identify pigeon specific stuff. Their result has been e-coli but I have read that e-coli usually causes issues only as a secondary infection.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Apparently there is a human medicine with active substance nystatine. Any advise about dosing?
I would go to a vet, but it's come to the point I know more about pigeons than what I can find here. They simply don't specialize in birds, nevermind pigeons.
 

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Try the following: give acv in the water twice a week. Garlic water once a week. Then mix equal amounts of the following: turmeric, ginger, cinnamon and cayenne pepper. Give this mixture twice a week with their food. Wet the food with a bit of lemon juice and mix one tablespoon of the mixture with one kilogram of food.

I've checked again on a FB racing pigeon site and the above mixture is highly recommended. All natural ingredients to boost their immunity. Nystatin can also be mixed in with the food, but you will use quite a lot. Nystatin dosage is 30 000 units per 100 gr birdweight. So an adult pigeon weighing 400 gr will need about 1 ml twice a day.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thank you for the advise, I will. Do you have some solid info about how the garlic water is prepared? I've looked on google and it seems to vary, there are also some topics on this forum saying garlic is toxic for them (to some degree). I've given them cinnamon/oregano/coconut oil/garlic mixed in balls in the past - this time last year I was also dealing with repeated antibiotics treatments that gave no results for a new rescue, and eventually I just went to "natural" alternatives. I don't like giving antibiotics to my birds, I know that sometimes they are needed, but I hate giving them stuff randomly, I wish I could test and target the issue not play roulette. We never found out what was wrong with that rescue, we took a leap of faith after 3 months of quarantine, and just let her join the rest of the flock. She was better from day one, continued snoring for a few months but now she is normal and married to Coil (the boy I'm having most issues with). I also have some kind of fancy powder for boosting immunity (I bought several variants of such while dealing with PMV last summer).
ImmunBooster 500g - immune system - by Rohnfried (pigeonsproducts.com) - this is the powder. I've been adding this to their food for 1-2 weeks every 1-2 months.
Avidress Plus 1000 ml - Preventive supplement - by Rohnfried (pigeonsproducts.com) - this is the fancy vinegar, unfortunatelly seems to not be tolerated.
RO200 ready 600 gr by Röhnfried (pigeonsproducts.com) - vitamins I'm giving them, I have the tablets variant and give them one every few weeks.
I also have some local production bottles for similar purposes. The rarely get to see water without something in it.

I've noticed today Coil is holiding a wing a little stiff and I wonder if he's not hurt it yesterday. He's flying but seemed to make him uncomfortable.
 

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Try one clove of garlic in 2 litres of water. Peel and cut the garlic in half and let it soak for 12 hours in the water. I've read too much garlic can cause anemia, but I think once a week will be ok.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I'll try that. I had to poke him off the nest so he can eat something, but he's obviously reluctant to fly. I might try to handfeed him, though last time I tried that last summer he threw up.
 
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