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Guardian Angel
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We will have to wait until some of the other members, who actually bought these stuffed doves/pigeons/others, come on.

I didn't pay much attention to WHERE they were available because the attempts I had made (and, to be honest, not very hard) to introduce a surrogate to Squeaks from various cat toys I had around, did not interest him. He wanted ME and NO one else!

So, to comment about your foot...well, there IS the possibility that your foot or other anatomy parts will always be preferable to anything - ah - not alive. Pigeons usually mate for life...sorry, but may be too late for you...:eek:

Now, the GOOD news is, IF PoopZilla decides to abandon you and seek another as his mate, you and your foot (etc.) are off the hook (in a manner of speaking! ;) ) One can always hope! :D

As always, sending you and PoopZilla...hugs and scritches

Shi
& Squeaks (who just told me that he personally thinks PoopZ. has already made his choice!) :rolleyes:

AHA! I see Victor has come to the "rescue!"
 

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Discussion Starter #22
Wow!

Great link, Victor, and thank you!

I wonder if he'd go for the cute little Puffin?

All kinds of interesting possibilities there....
 

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Well, Jonathan, if you hope to divert PoopZilla from his amorous attentions to your person, I would strongly suggest you find a "new" mate as soon as possible...BEFORE he decides that he won't give you up!!

GOOD LUCK and, I have a feeling you are gonna need it!

Can't wait to see what happens! :D :D :D ;)

Shi
& Squeaks (who has no comment at this time...)
 

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Although this thread is definitely "on topic" and I can appreciate the situation as I have several male pigeons, I think the sexual comments are not meant for a public forum, and we do have some youngsters that visit here. PLEASE keep that in mind.
 

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I just about fell out of my chair reading this thread soooo funny! I'm currently "mated" to 3 male pigeons. I don't think you have to invest in plush toys, my boys "enjoy" the merits of rolled up socks, shoes and appropriately sized fruit. I don't allow them to get fresh with me.
 

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I, too, am ROMALFO along with having empathy toward your "situation". My little Starling, Spreckles, has apparently matured in the last couple of weeks and has altered his usual behavior towards me. An inquiry on Starling talk got the response that he is engaging in courting behavior. I guess a lady Starling would be impressed by someone who puffs out it's feathers till it looks like a round ball, lowers it's wings and screams and shrieks while flapping hysterically.

Margaret
 

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Discussion Starter #28 (Edited)
Thank you all for your kind and often funny responses...it's good to know that I'm not alone in living what to 'the outside world' might seem like total madness :D

In all seriousness, I have to say that since entering my life, Poopzilla is progressively opening new and unknown territory in my already long-standing affection for members of his species.

I don't know if this strange and improbable alchemy of the heart is something common to all animals or is pigeon-specific: I suppose that only those who've experienced living with a variety of pets would be able to answer that question.

But to reiterate: is there really something special about pigeons that makes them so attaching to us, or is this 'specialness' found in any animal/companion which we become attached to?

I'd like to see a response on this from Phil - who has apparently an uncommon knowledge and empathy for our little friends - as well as many of the members here whose posts - when read between the lines - reveal their endless wonderment and gratitude for the gifts these companions keep giving us.
 

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Thank you all for your kind and often funny responses...it's good to know that I'm not alone in living what to 'the outside world' might seem like total madness :D

In all seriousness, I have to say that since entering my life, Poopzilla is progressively opening new and unknown territory in my already long-standing affection for members of his species.

Hi ryannon,


Just happenned to notice your thread back-at-the-top...so I stopped in to say 'Hello' and see how things are going...

Glad to hear they are going well, and, are somewhat wacky, as is the usual course of things with these little Harpys, of course...


I don't know if this strange and improbable alchemy of the heart is something common to all animals or is pigeon-specific: I suppose that only those who've experienced living with a variety of pets would be able to answer that question.

As far as I can tell, it is to be expected for most Species of Creaturedom, when their members happen to live with humans, or, vice versa...or so long as there is kindness and gentleness from the humans, anyway..there will be natural and easy regards, affections, and some orders of communication and harmony...reciprocal accomidations...

And if one kindly raises the youngsters or orphan Babys of other Species, often this will be particularly so, and, reciprocally.

Pigeons are likely among the more amenible...

Too, if is only very recently in the course of human history, that most people were NOT living immediately 'with' other Animals of in-effect 'familial' or semi-domesticated Species...

And in many cases of this, I do mean in the same space literally...

Probably in ancient times, baby humans nursed on friendly 'family' Goats, Dogs, or other Mammals if the timing was right, simply as a casual matter of everyone being so used to eachother and accepting...and certainly such babys as they grew, routinely played with and were looked after by the various other Animals as were part of the family...

There is a great little Vidwo about a family in Asia whose little Boy has been growing up with a Python, where the Python was a tiny Baby at the same time he was, but now he is like 7 or something, and the Python is what, 18 feet long and about 12 inches around?


Python seems to love him, and he definitely loved the Python...and the boys mom and dad are totally easy and just accept the Python as part of the family...





Certainly even now one sees Cats 'adopting' abandonded or neglected Puppies, and Dogs doing likewise with abandonded or neglected Kittens...


There are known instances of the Emu and Ostrich adopting lost human tollders or very young children, and years later, these kids are discopvered, skinny, matter long hair, bellys full of tape worms, calloused feets, keen eyes, good runners of course...having lived for years beneath the care and kindness of these large Birds...where, they would otherwise have certainly perished...

One sees Cats or Dogs adopting Ducklings or other...or adopting Baby Possoms whose momma was Car-hit or other...so...it is in various ways, in all our 'Blood' to either do, or to have the potential for doing...or it is endemic for most Species to find conditions in which they accept other Species as friends or family.


This, for people,. to one extent or another, was the de-rigeur for hundreds of thousands of years, if not more...


And remains vestugual in the form of many people 'having' Dogs, or Cats, or...in some cases, 'Birds'...


Ungulates, while highly traditional, are logistically inconvenient for most urban situations, townhouses, appartments and so on, so...have fallen from fashion or favor...


...did you see that youtube Video about the Hippipotamous which these people had raised from a orphan Baby? It was very sweet...if I can find it, I will post it for you to see...

So...really, among ingenuous humans, this does seem to be a very Natural expression of our Humanity - to share Life with other Species, to include them kindly into our lives, and, to be surrogate parents for the lost or wayward Babys of them if need be should they be in need of it, and or in one way or another, to have 'familys' wich are composed of our own, and, other Species, and when possible, for all to share the same space in daily Life.



But to reiterate: is there really something special about pigeons that makes them so attaching to us, or is this 'specialness' found in any animal/companion which we become attached to?

Both...

If Pigeons were the size and weight of say, a Rhinosaurous, or even a large Ungulate such as a Bull or Cow, then things might be a little awkward at times ( and those Wing-Slaps could really send you far into next Week then!) ...so, likely their 'small' size is a plus...

They are of the gamut of extant Theropds you know...and many of their long-ago predecessors-ancestors were quite large ( 7 Tons or something for some of them, I think...).


The extinct 'Dodo Bird' was an order of Columbiform, and quite tame from the get go, being they were long accustomed to haveing no troubles from anyone, till people showed up...


The Dodo was a moderately 'hefty' fello, too...


I'd hate to be cleaning up after a bunch of them trotting around the house and so on...

I'd wear out that Snow Shovel on no time with that situation...



I'd like to see a response on this from Phil - who has apparently an uncommon knowledge and empathy for our little friends - as well as many of the members here whose posts - when read between the lines - reveal their endless wonderment and gratitude for the gifts these companions keep giving us.

Thank you...


While 'Dove Zilla' ( a Dove ) and 'Butter Cup' ( a Cockateil ) each regard me as a somewhat casual 'mate' ( and no one else has been elected by either, yet...) this has been unusual for the situation here, where, for the various transient and also the long-term Pigeons anyway, they have plenty of eachother to choose from, and, they do choose, too...so most who are here any length of time, unless too young, do elect mates from the mileiu, and overall, they stay with them, too long after they are released, or, for whatever their time of stay here may be.


'Dove Zilla' likes laying next to my hand when my hand is on the Computer 'mouse', and he sort of preens my knuckles and so on, or just cuddles.
Or, naps on my shoulder as I sit...and, usually sleeps next to my head on the pillow...

This is very sweet...


'Butter Cup' not long after I got her, got kind of wound up and made a little Nest next to my Computer, and layed several perfect little Eggs, and was expecting me to take my turns brooding them, which, since they were so close and all, I more or less did...

She also naps on my soulder, and likes to sleep mext to my head, but elects the other side from where Dove Zilla is...


Neither ever seems jealous of the other, which is nice of course...


And both every day enjoy various particular attentions and getting kisses on their little heads, more than the others do.

Really, most of the others, if I do scoop[ them up and kiss them on the head, have a reaction about like I used to when I was a kid and some frouncy older Aunt wanted to smootch me or tousel my hair...so, they basically seem to sort of just say, "Yuck!!!! Foooey!" and run off...


Lol...


Phil
l v
 

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Discussion Starter #30 (Edited)
Lovely and fascinating reply, Phil:

"Too, if is only very recently in the course of human history, that most people were NOT living immediately 'with' other Animals of in-effect 'familial' or semi-domesticated Species...".

Spot on. Absolutely true. And just one of about a zillion other things that Homo Sapiens no longer do - after having done so for hundreds of centuries. We rarely realize how much of our collective past we've left behind and totally forgotten - which might explain some our present sense of disorientation and anomie.

"So...really, among ingenuous humans, this does seem to be a very Natural expression of our Humanity - to share Life with other Species, to include them kindly into our lives, and, to be surrogate parents for the lost or wayward Babys of them if need be should they be in need of it, and or in one way or another, to have 'families' which are composed of our own, and, other Species, and when possible, for all to share the same space in daily Life."

And, as you've pointed out in your examples of animals 'adopting' humans, vice-versa.

All of which reminds me of an observation by one or another of the Classical Greek philosophers (either Plato or Socrates, I believe) to the effect that during a previous 'Golden Age' of Humanity, 'men and animals could communicate with one another' - which - despite the vagaries of translation and interpretation - I take to mean 'understand' one another.

After reflection, this is in line with Shamanic practices, animal totems and the relationship of Native Americans (as well as practically every so-called 'primitive' peoples) with the animals that populated their environment. Not to mention a wealth of folk-tales from around the world concerning privileged communication between men and animals.

In this context - always so easy to ignore, dismiss or forget - your reference to the unfortunate Dodos may very well be prophetic: the next 'Dodo' on the list for a massive extinction event may very well be ourselves - if we're not a shade more conscious about where we've been, what our real heritage is, and the mess that many of us have made of it....
 

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Discussion Starter #35 (Edited)
This thread makes me uncomfortable.

So why are you looking at it? :confused:

Permit me to let you and Matt in on a BIG secret: when a thread makes you uncomfortable, instead of whinging about it, don't look at it.

Get it?

There are threads on this forum which I either don't pursue or even open, particularly when they deal with forms of cruelty shown to pigeons (or any other animals).

Now that (I hope) you've understood the technique, let's cut to the chase: what is it about this thread that (Matt) makes you want to see it dead, and (Roxtar) makes you uncomfortable?

Have we (I'm not the only one posting in it) overstepped what you consider to be the limits of good taste?

Are there words or ideas you have difficulty understanding?

In Matt's case, perhaps Trees Grey was correct in saying that there are children reading this forum who could be shocked or otherwise upset by the sudden realization that pigeons are not brought by storks.

As for the reason(s) for Roxtar's discomfort, I can only speculate. To the best of my knowledge, I'm certain that this thread contains no incitation to undo anyone's mother - so it must be something else.

What I do know from long experience as an active member of other forums is that there is always a small percentage of readers ready to find fault with almost any post. Often this has less to do with the opinions and content of the post than of the (virtual) personality of the poster in relation to the very real personality of the complainer. On the Net, office politics becomes forum politics, with the danger of the most repressive, limiting elements gradually imposing their ideas of what everyone else is allowed or not allowed to see.

If such is the case here, then I'm in the wrong place. I've already read The Name of the Rose and seen the movie: I don't need to be on the wrong end of a shabby attempt at its remake on an Internet forum.

As the more attentive members might have noticed, I've enlarged the scope of this discussion from Matt's death-wish and Roxtar's discomfort to the subject of what may or may not be posted on this forum by its members.

I thought I had a pretty good grasp on the parameters, but perhaps I'm mistaken.

To that end, I'd appreciate some input by one or more of the moderators as to how this thread violates the terms I agreed to when becoming a member of this forum - if indeed it does.

In the event that it does not, I'd like to extend my heartfelt invitation to those who are not happy with its content to not look at it and to leave those of us who do find it interesting, in peace.

You can then use the considerable energy you'll save to either contribute to other threads or start your own - which presumably will be more to your taste.
 

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* To that end, I'd appreciate some input by one or more of the moderators as to how this thread violates the terms I agreed to when becoming a member of this forum - if indeed it does.

** In Matt's case, perhaps Trees Grey was correct in saying that there are children reading this forum who could be shocked or otherwise upset by the sudden realization that pigeons are not brought by storks.
* Here's my input.

You are exactly right when you suggest that if someone doesn't agree with the contents of a post, then they certainly have the option not to read it.

With regard to any violation of the terms of this board, the following was taken, in part, from the Policies and Terms of Use. http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=7007

You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this BB to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy or otherwise violative of any law.

Although the following examples were intended to be lighthearted, they do carry a sexually oriented tone.

jumping my bones every time he gets a chance

The routine is always the same: a perfunctory courting dance, a few grunts, and then BANG! - right onto any part of me that's horizontal

I'd feel guilty of depriving him of getting off.

Actually, what I meant to say was that I'd feel guilty about preventing him from getting his jollies

He's just starting out...we haven't got to the big wet spot stage yet


** This has nothing to do with children realizing pigeons aren't brought by storks. :rolleyes:

Cindy

I do appreciate you changing the title. :)
 

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While I don't want to wander too far from the topic of the original post, I would like to offer an opinion (for whatever it's worth). Personally, I find this thread hysterical! And anything that can give me a chance to laugh as a break from hearing about the rest of the "madness" that goes on in this world is great - from my perspective. While I understand the "sexually oriented tone" some of the commentary boarders on , I truly don't believe it's anything that kids would find surprising... and especially if they are raising pigeons - they likely empathize with the situation and may have even experienced it themselves. I do like to see posts remain "tastefull" and, for the most part, I think Ryan has accomplished that.

With that said, I would like to know the solution you wind up with Ryan. I only have two female doves right now... but who knows what the future may bring.

And, thanks for giving me a chance to LOL :)
 

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Since you asked ryannon,

.....I don't know if it violates the rules of this forum....I just think it violates the rules of good taste....but in today's world, there are few rules requiring people to demonstrate good taste or breeding (no pun intended)....if someone has to ask, then it's a good bet they have no idea why some consider these comments crude and lacking class....because they lack these qualities, and you further demonstrate that by becoming aggressive towards those who point out this deficiency. So this is my take anyway since you asked....


"jumping my bones every time he gets a chance...The routine is always the same: a perfunctory courting dance, a few grunts, and then BANG! - right onto any part of me that's horizontal....I'd feel guilty of depriving him of getting off....Actually, what I meant to say was that I'd feel guilty about preventing him from getting his jollies...He's just starting out...we haven't got to the big wet spot stage yet"
 

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Jonathan,
I'm not a moderator but I just want to say I also thought this thread was hilarious. Yes sexually-oriented...but not offensive or lacking "class" or "breeding." Sexually-oriented in a JOKING FUNNY way. I also agree that people who find it distasteful certainly have no obligation to read it. In terms of kids, if they are kids who are around animals, they do witness mating behavior. I don't think they'd learn anything here that they didn't already know.
My two cents...
 

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I was wondering how you all could continue to see humor in something as infantile as this... If you can find a 14 year old that thinks a stork brings babies... well there either retarted or extremely sheltered. I have been pairing up pigeons scince I was 3. This is nothing new to me, I was wondering what type of gratification you get from talking about "this"?
 
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