Pigeon-Talk banner

61 - 79 of 79 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
278 Posts
Discussion Starter #61 (Edited)
Thanks for reminding me of the author, Sabina!

A description can be found on his website:

http://www.andrewblechman.com/

@phil:

I actually have it (somewhere) and would be happy to send it over to you - I don't believe in holding on to books; it's better when they're shared. In turn, you could pass it on to a forum member who hasn't read it, and so on...

And:

Your explanation of the lion's behavoir made so much sense that it was a pleasure to read: I had the impression of finally reading something intelligent concerning that event - instead of the usual idiocies that were printed or broadcast via the media...

That might also explain the reason why Sigmund (or was it Roy?) refused to have the animal put down.

I'll fill you in on my Paris existence some other time; the good news here is that little Poopzilla is gaining some motor control - meaning the ability to get off the ground and not come back down on his head - practically centimeter by centimeter...

I've been playing with him as much as possible in the hopes that contact and stimuli would serve as a sort of physical therapy which might aid his damaged neurons and nerves to reconnect. Wishful and naive thinking perhaps, but I sometimes feel such a current of positive energy between us that I can't help imagining that something good will eventually come of it.

In the last few days, he's been able to increase his jumping/wing flapping abilities to the point of making it up to a natural perch just at window-level, from which he can observe and communicate with the ferals who come and go on the windowsill outside. This is a huge event for the both of us, and the first time he's been able to observe the outside world on his own.

I would be so happy to see this guy take to the air and fly someday - not the least because I could finally live in a guano-free environment and be able to invite people over again. Paradoxically, in the short period that he's been with me, I've realized that I'm not really interested in having people over that much...Poopzilla's arrival in my life seems to have been the catalyst for a number of changes and re-evaluations of what and who is really important.

The little guy gives me as much back as I give him - and perhaps more - in truth, I'm not really sure who is taking care of who here.

I'm certain that many other members will recognize themselves in this strange dynamic... I've heard it said that birds are mediators between heaven and earth - between the sky and where we are.

It's a nice thought, and I'll leave you and the other readers with it...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
228 Posts
Speaking of "guano free," you might want to consider getting Poopzilla some PGWear. I have a "companion pigeon" I didn't expect either, and I was faced with a similar dilemma in wanting my pigeon--Sophie--to have time out of her home without having everything covered in her little gifts. For a long time, I made do with two rolls of paper towels always at the ready, but then I got the PGWear, and I have to say (as I have said several times before) it has made ALL THE DIFFERENCE in maximizing our ability to interact and really explore the human/pigeon bond. I have a few more updates about Sophie I will post soon, but I would urge you to consider, at least for the time your pigeon will be "house bound" utilizing the option of PGWear.

Best,

Bill B.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,369 Posts
hey you two,

the book is Pigeons by Andrew Blechman.

a coyote that was wandering around NYC was captured last year, and then I think died shortly after: http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/03/22/nyc.coyote/
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9504E3D91230F932A35757C0A9609C8B63

glad to see a cease-fire, or at least, a real conversation going again...:) i love this thread (minus the naysayers that is)

sabina


Hi sabina,


Thank you...


I will look for the Book...


Wow, I had no idea thee were Coyotes in or close to NYC..!

Poor 'Hal'...kinda seems like he had too much of being pestered and man-handled...that or, the Tranquilizer dart's Needle may have punctured a major blood vessel...


Phil
l v
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,369 Posts
Hi ryannon,



The Guano here enjoys what for most people, would be some unexpected continuitys or outcomes. For one thing, it gives the Mice and Ants something to eat, besides the odd Seeds they find or carry off, or other sundrys they catch or find.

Last night, a Mouse not a foot away from my keyboard, leaning back on his haunches, was placidly munching a pretty large fresh Pigeon-poop he had found, which he was holding in both hands like it was a slice of Watermellon.


I said to him "Mr. or Miss Mouse - your meal there seems just-a-little uncouth to me..!"


Lol...


They seemed to be enjoying it, and merely paused a moment to look at me, wondering what I was going on about now...when I spoke some more, they sveltly moved back and semi-hid from me, concerned I might be planning to challenge them for their prize.

The Mice here are pretty easy going. I set up the 'Live Trap' now and then and catch some to turn loose at the Park. They are small Field Mice ( as I call them anyway ) grey-brown in color, and avid Hunters of Roaches and Crickets, too.


Feral Cats catch and eat the Mice out in the Workshop...Mice catch and eat the Roaches and Crickets...

Spiders catch and eat the Ants which fall into their Webs...

Ants eat any deceased Roaches or Crickets they find...

Not a bad little eco-system here all tolled...

But overall, most of the Mice seem wiling to let me pretend 'peck' at Seeds an inch from their grazings, or, even to let me softly pet their shoulders or back or ribs, as long as I move slowly.

If they have a Bug or Poop they found, they are more guarded, suspicious I might be interested to steal their find from them, so they tend to get shy if they have a 'catch' of some kind...usually...

Sometimes there will be two or three with their little rumps in the air, heads and shoulders in a small seed Bowl on the desk...and I can join them with my finger in the bowl, pretend pecking, and it is fine with them...but usually I gently shoo them out since the Seeds are supposed to be for the Doves, and not them.


They are friendly Mice and radiantly healthy, too...their little coats just 'glow'..!

I would prefer NOT to have any Mice here, they are destructive and worrysome in various ways, but my best efforts to catch them all have never proved successful, so, I just catch some now and then, and it never ends...

The Ants similarly, reduce to nothing the Guano they find or elect, and, are flourishing now, where for years they barely got by.

Crickets also eat the Guano, and, small Seeds...also...lots of Crickets here, plump, vivid, and quite happy...

So, between us all, it gets dealt with...and of course Mr. Broom and Miss Mop ( what is this, some Kids tee vee show??? Lol...) do their respective Dance routines too.


Now...remind me please -


Poopzilla...he is thought to have had the PMV? Or...?


Anyway, whether it were PMV ( or PPMV or something else ) or an injury from some sort of blunt trauma...if you are not already, you might do well to augment his diet with some various Natural suppliments for enhancing his intake of Antioxidants, and various Vitamines and Minerals.

Are his reflexes equal bilaterally?

Or is one side less able?


It certainly can be a long slow road for them to gain whatever state of Neurological improves that they can or will...so I figure, may as well allow them whatever advantage we can Nutritionally.


All tolled, what is his diet presently?

And, is there a way ( obviously, it is Winter now in your region, and likely cold out, but ) for him to get direct, unfiltered Sunshine now and then? As much as possible even?


Phil
l v
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Hi Victoria and welcome to the forum.
Thank you for the warm welcome, Lady T. I am much obliged. :)

Acrimony on this site is truly a rarity but it does happen as it does on many sites when you have members of diverse backgrounds and personalities, so don't let this particular thread turn you off from the forum as a whole.
Well, I've been reading a few threads and that is certainly true.

I myself am British, but have emigrated to America going on a decade now. I too come from a diverse, perhaps even unusual background but thankfully, there are a lot of TCK* around these days.

*TCK: Third Culture Kids, handy term, but sometimes not understood!

Personally, I have enjoyed the thread. But hey, I'm the member who has posted a game that turned out to have nudity also in the link....course, I immediately deleted the link when I found out, but the game was great! :)
I am pudique, as the French say, so not given to a lot of sexual expressions. However, surely when pigeons are being discussed, it's on topic, and educational.

I wasn't crazy about the original title of the thread and I'm glad that was changed.
Didn't see that.

I doubt many of the very young people on this forum have paid much attention to the "innuendos" (like Kippy's "scotchguard" comment which I thought was hilarious)
I thought of making an allusion to the fact that the phrase reminded me of penis gourd (I had even googled a photo), but demurred as it might seem odd in my first postings here.

But just so that you know. ;)

and those children, or teenagers, who did pay attention have probably been around pigeons long enough to understand exactly what was being said because they have seen it themselves.
Quite so, Lady Tarheel. Coarseness, I'm sure we can all recall, is part and parcel of being a child.

It's the irreverence of children that perhaps attracts people to pigeons. I love it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
278 Posts
Discussion Starter #66
Hi ryannon,
Now...remind me please -

Poopzilla...he is thought to have had the PMV? Or...?

Anyway, whether it were PMV ( or PPMV or something else ) or an injury from some sort of blunt trauma...if you are not already, you might do well to augment his diet with some various Natural suppliments for enhancing his intake of Antioxidants, and various Vitamines and Minerals.

Are his reflexes equal bilaterally?

Or is one side less able?

It certainly can be a long slow road for them to gain whatever state of Neurological improves that they can or will...so I figure, may as well allow them whatever advantage we can Nutritionally.

All tolled, what is his diet presently?

And, is there a way ( obviously, it is Winter now in your region, and likely cold out, but ) for him to get direct, unfiltered Sunshine now and then? As much as possible even?

Phil
l v

Phil, to try to answer, I've always thought it was PMV: I found him as a squeaker, standing against a building in a pedestrian street, with that special look they have on their mugs when they know that there are no more options for survival. After a few days at home, I began to notice that he would run around in circles; close up, I could see a constant and very fine trembling of the head; as time passed, his efforts to take off resulted in backwards flying and helicopter spins and crashes. He would 'toss' larger seeds.... In short, all the symptoms. That was a little more than six months ago.

Nutrition does seem to play an important role: the better it gets, the better he seems to get. At present, along with a decent grade of grit, he's receiving a standard bagged mix of small grains for doves and pigeons; recently, I started experimenting with adding small green lentils and very small enriched fresh-egg pasta noodles for human-type beings(!). Several months ago, I crushed a big U.S. supervitamin pill into fine powder and mixed it into the big jar I keep his seeds in. In other words, I'm playing it pretty much by ear - and by the pitifully limited selection of pigeon products that can be found in Paris. The sunlight he gets will increase with his new-found ability to place himself next to the window...

As for the rest, I've looked through mail-order lists from specialized supply sources in places like Belgium (the best bet for ordering and receiving products here in France) and quite frankly, I wouldn't know where to start.

I probably put more thought into what he's being nourished with than with my own; his weight and size seem right to me; we get along well :D and he's plenty sassy and chipper - full of all the curiosity and mischief that I've learned to associate with healthy birds.

As for the remaining PMV symptoms, the compulsive 'running around in circles' syndrome is gradually ceasing; he usually tries to take off several times a day, but his co-ordination is still off: his navigation system is obviously not hitting on all cylinders.

Improvement is nevertheless small, regular and incremental: he's learned to gracefully glide down from my bed to the floor instead of frantically flapping his wings and landing on his head or back; as I mentioned above, today he finally was able to co-ordinate a veritcal hop and wing-flap to reach an interior ledge next to a window; his range of short successful flights down from to the floor from varying heights is increasing.

His favorite activity when not displaying forms of affection which must best remain unmentioned, is biting my hand and fingers like a total maniac - behavior which can be immediately neutralized by grabbing his beak between thumb and forefinger and rhymically squeezing it to reproduce squeakerhood memories of being nursed by his parents: his eyes close in total bliss while he hunkers down, grunting like a happy little piglet and swallowing large quantities of the imaginary milk of pigeon parent-kindness.

In between all this, I scritch his head, caress his neck, tickle him under his wings, gently pull his tail feathers when he turns his back on me, talk to him, tease him - and do my best to let him know that I'm there for him.

It's a pretty satisfying relationship we've worked out.

Something tells me that he is going to get better - perhaps much better, and perhaps even well enough to someday take off and join the pigeon acquaintances that he's progressively making now that he can interact with them from his side of the window.

Whew.

That seemed like a long post.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,856 Posts
Jonathan, that was a lovely post. I'm really glad PoopZilla is improving. It only takes time and TLC

A few years ago, we got in 6 or more pigeons, all with PMV in varying stages of the disease. One in particular, that we called Juliette, had a mild case but could not fly for months. We kept all of them in the house and would regularly let them out to exercise. One day, Juliette discovered she could fly up to a table and I think she was as surprised as we were. She gradually was able to take off, fly around the room and land just like any pigeon.

Stress can cause them to revert to the PMV symptoms. When we finally put Juliette in our aviary, her symptoms came back, only not as severe and not as long lasting. Later on, she was given to a friend who has a larger aviary with other handicapped pigeons. At least, if the PMV reoccurred from time to time she was in a safe environment.
 

·
Guardian Angel
Joined
·
10,523 Posts
GOOD HEAVENS!!! Be away for over 24 hours and.....:eek:

As President of the NMB, I just have to put in my 2 cents and let the chips fall where they may.

Generally speaking, there are times when I will follow "discretion is the better part of valor" and keep my post shut. However, I do have a few comments to make...

First - maybe my age(?) - I thought this post and all other posts started by Jonathan were/are hysterical! I believe in laughter. I also realize than not everyone would share my opinion regarding certain subjects and discussions. So be it. AND, as has been stated before, we are a diverse group - some more conservative than others. Everyone is entitled to their opinion(s) and, after stating their positions, have choices: further discussion(s), ignore, etc.

I also think that intent can be an important issue. Those who deliberately and knowingly start a thread/discussion/post with the intent to cause trouble is one thing. Those who say things that were not intentionally intended to provoke is something else.

Yes, some phrases are provacative and can "insult/bother" others...again, depends on how one "takes" the words. To sum up, I again say,

" I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard in not what I meant."

Being able to communicate "exactly" what we mean can be very difficult via the written word. And, I also know that certain ways of phrasing are not to everyone's "liking"...but, sometimes, a certain phrase can save a LOT of beating around the bush, so to speak. :rolleyes: And, finally, oh yes, I am WELL AWARE of the term "good taste."

OK, enuf of that...

ROY was the one who was dragged by the tiger off stage and I agree with what he said...the tiger meant him no harm. I'm glad the tiger wasn't destroyed!

Wow, Phil, you have quite an ecosystem there! Few are able to live in harmony with non-humans as you do. Don't I wish ALL of humanity had the same kind of attitude!

Yes, Andrew B. and his Pigeon book was quite fascinating. He did have parts that were heartbreaking and will always haunt me. I, for one, simply cannot understand why some humans have so little empathy for the animals and birds who share our world!

I have read on this site that PMV pijies can recover but rarely do their owners release them for reasons already mentioned.

Jonathan, sunlight through a window is not the same as direct sunlight, so members have brought to our attention in the past.

I am SO glad this thread has not been closed! I have and am continuing to enjoy and ponder the posts.

AND, I will look forward to future updates about PoopZilla, the Wonder Pigeon. Jonathan, you have done an amazing job in helping PoopZilla recover and finding that , YES, LIFE IS WORTH LIVING!

Finally, I suppose I related more to what Jonathan orginally posted than most just because I live with one pigeon AND a male at that! I understand, commiserate AND empathize!

Shi
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,014 Posts
I, too, have been enjoying this thread. Jonathan, I have the book, and when you inquired about Phil possibly being one of the persons in the book, I had to look back through it.(I'm a nosey member after all) I think you may be referring to Dave Roth of Phoenix, Arizona. He has been a real mover and shaker of pigeon welfare and operates the Urban Wildlife Society an online organization which is, as far as I can tell, a one man operation.http://www.urbanwildlifesociety.org/UWS/
I got this from the book and his site looks chock full of useful stuff about pigeons.

I'm so glad to hear about Poopzilla's improvement.

Margaret
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
278 Posts
Discussion Starter #70
Thank you for all the info and your concern for Poopzilla, Lady Tarheel, Shi and Margarret :)

In response to some of the points raised:

Sunlight - I don't see any possibilities of getting P-Zilla exposed to some direct sunlight: precious little enters my place during the winter months (I'm up high, but with a Northern exposure), and what does, comes through the windows. I could take P-Zilla to a park, but then what?

Hmmm....maybe in an appropriate cage? (Meaning one which would let a large amount of sunlight in).

On the other hand, I wouldn't want to stress poor P-Zilla out by the experience. Perhaps something to try in the Spring....


Margarret, you're right about the reference to Dave Roth in Phoenix - given Phil's knowledge and love of pigeons (and as we've discovered, apparently all living creatures) I thought that he might have been the guy profiled in the book - which I read last year.

At the moment, its 3:30 a.m. in Paris, and I'm still up - despite having some morning classes to teach tomorrow. Poopzilla is toasting himself on top the the radiator - which he can now reach - next to the window. I put an old tee-shirt on top of it, and the temperature is just right for a relaxing snooze. From time to time he grunts contentedly - obviously delighted at having discovered this great roosting-place - as well as finally having left floor-level, on which he's spent the last six months, under his own power. A couple of neighborhood ferals are spending the night on the ledge on the other side of the window; I can see their dark silhouettes against the faintly-lighted sky above the city.

Everything's calm and quiet; the immediate world (me, P-Zilla and the birds on the windowsill outside is at peace. One day has ended and another not quite begun.

I wonder what tomorrow will bring?


Good night to all,


Jonathan and Poopzilla :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
228 Posts
I liked all the info about poopzilla. as a "parent" of a single pigeon, i can relate. i live in the US, and am lucky enough to have a wonderful pigeon store nearby. I have numerous choices for Sophie's seed, but since I recently moved to the country, I have started buying in 50# bags. She likes the feed, but--being spoiled AND overfed--she leaves the corn until I cut back on her breakfast and dinner. Of course, she has plenty of hemp and safflower seeds (her favorite) for treats. Oddly, she doesn't care for peanuts at all, no matter how I attempt to present them to her--big, small, crushed, smashed, diced, she has no interest.

Anyway, if it would help at all, Id' volunteer to airmail you pigeon feed seeds, grit and anything else you think you need. I know Sophie used to be able ot make a 5 lb. bag last a long time. So, if there's anything you need for the little fellow, just let me know, or drop me a line off list, and I will send it along for you.

Cheers,

Bill B.
 

·
Guardian Angel
Joined
·
10,523 Posts
Good for Sophie, Bill...I have heard on the site that peanuts are not the best for the pijies...However, Squeaks is "nuts" about his Saffs and Hemps, so can relate!

Sounds like PZ is comin' along just fine, Jonathan...bet those ferals will keep him entertained or maybe he will keep THEM entertained?!

What do you teach? And, I promise I won't tell your students you stayed up til the wee hours writing about a pigeon...;) Of course, they don't know that Poopzilla is quite world famous! :D

Hugs and Scritches

Shi & Squeaks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,808 Posts
GOOD HEAVENS!!! Be away for over 24 hours and.....:eek:


Generally speaking, there are times when I will follow "discretion is the better part of valor" and keep my post shut. However, I do have a few comments to make...

First - maybe my age(?) - I thought this post and all other posts started by Jonathan were/are hysterical! I believe in laughter. I also realize than not everyone would share my opinion regarding certain subjects and discussions. So be it. AND, as has been stated before, we are a diverse group - some more conservative than others. Everyone is entitled to their opinion(s) and, after stating their positions, have choices: further discussion(s), ignore, etc.

I also think that intent can be an important issue. Those who deliberately and knowingly start a thread/discussion/post with the intent to cause trouble is one thing. Those who say things that were not intentionally intended to provoke is something else.

Yes, some phrases are provacative and can "insult/bother" others...again, depends on how one "takes" the words. To sum up, I again say,

" I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard in not what I meant."


Shi
LOL, I love that last part. Kinda hard to wrap the mind around, I am pretty tired hehe. Thanks, Shi, I couldn't have said it better myself. And no, it has nothing to do with age. . .maybe a Scorpio thing? :p


At the moment, its 3:30 a.m. in Paris, and I'm still up - despite having some morning classes to teach tomorrow. Poopzilla is toasting himself on top the the radiator - which he can now reach - next to the window. I put an old tee-shirt on top of it, and the temperature is just right for a relaxing snooze. From time to time he grunts contentedly - obviously delighted at having discovered this great roosting-place - as well as finally having left floor-level, on which he's spent the last six months, under his own power.
Hehe Bernadette was standing on the heater vent in the floor earlier, right after the heater went off. She looked pretty pleased with herself, too. :p
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,868 Posts
My pijies don't get direct sunlight either, so I bought them a reptile lamp with a broad spectrum UVA/UVB bulb which I leave on whenever I am in the room.

Reti
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
278 Posts
Discussion Starter #75 (Edited)
@Bill:

Thank you so much for your offer...I'm going to have to sort things out concerning what might be good (or absolutely necessary)... I'll also be contacting some local pigeon fanciers who've been recommended to me and see if they know of a source for specialized products. But I'll let you know, and may take you up on your gracious proposition.

@Reti: that's an interesting and very feasible idea.

Makes me think of the unbelievable number of hours and hours and hours I've spent myself just soaking up the beneficial rays of the sun in one of the nearby public gardens - or even seated in a café terrace: definitely healing. Couldn't have gotten through life without it.

I'm going to Google the terms and specs you've mentioned and see if I can find the same.

Alternatively, they do sell compact light systems intended to ward off SAD (Seasonal Affective Disorder) which many people suffer from during the winter months when there's a lack of sunshine here. Could we be talking about the same type of light-source, or is this lizard-specific?


UPdate:

Google knows all :) :

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/pic/article.cfm?N=2003&aid=1186

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/pet_supplies.cfm?c=5059+5690


Best regards to all,


Jonathan
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,868 Posts
Should be pretty much the same thing. I know the reptile lamps are pretty much "sunlight" even though artificial but it does have what an animal needs.

DrFoster and Smith is my favourite place for pet shopping, they have pretty much everything. The reptile lamps are much cheaper I see, compared to the bird lights and should be pretty much the same thing.

Reti
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,369 Posts
Thanks for reminding me of the author, Sabina!

A description can be found on his website:

http://www.andrewblechman.com/

@phil:

I actually have it (somewhere) and would be happy to send it over to you - I don't believe in holding on to books; it's better when they're shared. In turn, you could pass it on to a forum member who hasn't read it, and so on...

Cool...sounds good to me...thanks!


Your mention of excercise and play...with Poopzilla..

I'd think are definitely good for him...


If you lightly 'glisten' his Seeds with some fresh Olive Oil...you can get powders to stick to the Seeds, and, then he gets the powders as he eats.

Powders can be lots of different things...

- Powdered or fine-flaked 'Purple Dulce'...

- Brewer's Yeast

- Vitamines-Minerals, such as 'Nekton T' ( which you could send off for Mail Order, it is well known in Europe)

You can finely mince some fresh Garlic, add some of that to his day's worth of Seeds...

Non-salty sorts of Sea Weed, the 'fine' textured ones, he will either enjoy eating merely shredded by your fingers into small bits, or, you can grind in a little Coffee Grinder into a powder to add to his 'glistened' Seeds...

Fresh Greens, such as Endives, Beet Tops, Kales, Chards...( skip Lettuce if of common sorts, ) which...if he does not peck off bites as you hold some ( and as you hamm it up about how good it is) then take some Scissors and cut up tiny 1/8th inch 'diamond' shapes, say, a Teaspoon full or more, and have a little pile of that, next to his Seeds...and pretend-peck at them to get him going on them...

Get him some still chewy not stale whole Flax Seeds every now and then and encourage him to eat them.


Direct Sunshine is important for them to make Vitamine "D"...and they get it best that way, rather than in supliments...


If your Window gets straight Sunshine coming in, arrange some sort of grill so the Window can be 'open', and the Bird safe from getting out...


...or, make find or get a sort small sort of easy Cage, something easily carried, and bring him to the Park or something, where you can read-a-book, and he can get some Rays safely...

Just so he can have some now and then...


Best wishes...


Phil
l v
 

·
Guardian Angel
Joined
·
10,523 Posts
Reading Phil's post about greens, reminded me of Squeaks and his greens. I was making a salad one day and accidently dropped a small piece of Romaine. Squeaks just happened to be in "mate" mode and was in the kitchen with me. I looked down and Squeaks went after that piece in a flash and gobbled it right down.

I had other pieces of dark greens and started dropping pieces to see what he would do. He nailed them all! Sometimes, for kicks, I would drop a couple at a time...what a riot! He got 'em all and was he ever fast!!

You could always call it, "How to get your pij to eat his greens!" :p ;)

Hugs and scritches

Shi & Squeaks
 
61 - 79 of 79 Posts
Top