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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have two fledgling Woodies at present. I have a different problem with each of them.

The one hasn't been hand reared and is quite wild. This one has developed canker since I got it home and is on it's fourth day of Spartrix as it still hasn't completely cleared up.
How many days should I carry on with treatment if it doesn't clear by tomorrow? It hadn't any signs of canker when I first got it home but this developed after being here two days. I read that it can be brought on by stress so I wondered if it was as a result of being force fed or would it have had to be already present further down the throat?

Number two:
This fledgling has obviously been hand reared although not by me. I brought it home as it looked in such poor condition and it would have been released like that in a couple of days.
It is painfully thin and it's plumage is very sparse around it's neck area. It hasn't been in direct contact with the other Woodie but I have read before on here that people suspect canker sometimes if the neck feathers are thin.
I have given it two days of Spartrix but can see no signs in it's throat.
It eats well by itself now.
Considering these two are about the same age the difference in size is quite noticable.
Not knowing what food it was raised on I wondered if it hadn't developed as well possibly due to poor nourishment. If so is there anything I can give it to boost it's weight gain?

Thanks

Janet
 

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Hi Janet,

Have you got any metronidazole? I would switch to that , I can send you some. I would think that the canker is a result of infection by parental feeding. If the parent bird had an overburden of trich it would infect the youngster by passing on too many trichomonads in its food. The symptoms appear 6 days after infection, so nothing you did or didn't do caused it.

If a youngster has a canker nodule in the throat it will affect the feather follicles, so you would see a bald patch there, but not on the back of the neck. The thin feather growth could be a sign of bullying or of poor nutrition. Ill health can also temporarily stop feather growth.

Add something like Avipro Plus to its food and offer it "Maria's Greens" (rocket, water cress and spinach). If it doesn't eat these voluntarily then roll them up into little pellets and hand feed them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hi Cynthia,

I haven't got any Metronidazole, would appreciate some if you can spare, I assume it's a vets only med?

The small baby does look scrawny so hopefully will pick up with some nourishment.
I was hoping if I could get this canker to clear in the one they'd be good company for each other. Would be good if they'd pal up before I take them to the rescue centre. Might help the tamer one to 'wild up'.

Thanks

Janet
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Hi,

Horror this morning, I picked up the fledgling with canker to suddenly see a fly run across my hand and back amongst it's feathers. This is the first time I actually had a bird with these flies. I managed to catch it and dispose of it. I checked the bird over as well as I could and didn't see any more, but I assume it must have been there all along so just hope that's all it had.

I'm a little worried as I stupidly did put this baby in the shed with my other pigeons last week when it first came to try and settle it down as it was so stressed. It was in a self contained cage all the time, but nevertheless I don't know if any flies would have got to them.

Is there anything you can treat them with to make sure they're clear. I'd already treated the baby with drops for lice and worms when it first arrived. Doesn't look as if this controls flies then.

Also the canker is still under his tongue. The throat looks clear now but it's had five days on Spartrix and still can't get this piece to go.

Any info appreciated,

Janet
 

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Hi Janet,

The "canker" under the tongue could actually be a yeast lesion. Can you post a photo? The thing is that if it is yeast then antibiotics would make it worse. Do you have any Nystatin? When I had a pigeon with a yeast lesion under the tongue my vet, Rob, told me to leave it alone and it would go, which it did.

Johnson's Pigeon Insect Spray with pyrethrum should take care of any pigeon flies.
 

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Hi Janet,
I use Spartrix a lot. It should start working on the day one. I use it for three days max, if is not cleared by then, I stop and switch to something else. In very bad cases of canker when bird is in critical condition, Spartrix and Dimetridazole mix is my choice.
Pigeon fly is common parasite in SA. I use Ivermectin on my birds to keep them under control. Problem is that they come after some time again from feral birds. Regular baths in water mixed with vinegar and drop of Listerine mouthwash helps too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Hi Janet,

The "canker" under the tongue could actually be a yeast lesion. Can you post a photo? The thing is that if it is yeast then antibiotics would make it worse. Do you have any Nystatin? When I had a pigeon with a yeast lesion under the tongue my vet, Rob, told me to leave it alone and it would go, which it did.

Johnson's Pigeon Insect Spray with pyrethrum should take care of any pigeon flies.
Hi Cynthia,

I'll try for a picture tomorrow. The rest of it was definitely canker in the throat, and this yellow lesion under the tongue developed at the same time so I assumed it was all connected. Maybe not then.
I managed to tease it out once with a cotton bud and it came out whole and was the shape of the tongue with a hole in the middle so had grown around the base. I did notice a small yellow dot still there and this is what has grown again, although is not as large as before.
I crushed a quarter of the Spartrix up and sprinkled it directly under the tongue this morning. I'll let you know what it's like in the morning.

------------------

Hi Plamenh, thanks for the info on baths. I'd never have thought of putting Listerine mouthwash in their bath, will give that a try next bathtime! :)
Just want to be sure they haven't picked up any flies, they're so creepy. Yuk!

Janet
 

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Hi Janet, I have had pigeons with canker and from my experience the canker can take longer to clear long after the medication has been given.
 

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Oh I also have some powder for birds that clears them of insects to spare if you want, works very good. Let me know if you want me to send you some
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Oh I also have some powder for birds that clears them of insects to spare if you want, works very good. Let me know if you want me to send you some
Thanks Chris, he seems clear at the moment. I'll something in to be ready if I see any more of these monsters again.

The yellow growth has shrunk back further today. I tried for a picture but he's a wriggler so I couldn't hold him, lift his tongue and take a picture at the same time!! :eek:
I've put some Nystatin on it now and will see what tomorrow brings.

Janet
 

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Diluted Lugol's Iodine on q-tip helps clear any canker or fungi growth in mouth/throat. It is not pleasant and bird wiggles a lot during procedure, but I use it in emergencies.
3~4 drops in half coffee cup of warm water.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Diluted Lugol's Iodine on q-tip helps clear any canker or fungi growth in mouth/throat. It is not pleasant and bird wiggles a lot during procedure, but I use it in emergencies.
3~4 drops in half coffee cup of warm water.
Good, thanks for that tip. I have Iodine I use to disinfect the bird's housing, it says it can be given diluted in their water so I can try that if it still hasn't shifted.

Thanks

Janet
 

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Janet,

I just treated a juvenile with (presumed) canker. Most of the canker was under the tongue (the reason I noticed her on the street was because her lower mandible appeared swollen), and it took about 7 days of Spartrix for the lesions to clear. The last bit I was able to swab out from just under the tongue on day 10 or so.

Jennifer
 

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I don't think a yeast lesion would have the effect of distorting the mandible, the one my pigeon had looked like the one that I have seen in illustrations, which was like a piece of wheat caught under the tongue.

Having read Janet's description again and being able to visualise it this time : I managed to tease it out once with a cotton bud and it came out whole and was the shape of the tongue with a hole in the middle so had grown around the base I must say it sounds like canker. But if it is canker then Nystatin given at the same time as metronidazole or spartrix (all of which Janet has) does no harm and could do good whereas if it was a yeast infection then giving additional antibiotics could aggravate the problem.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Hi,

I've just this minute got home, to be greeted by my daughter holding a juvenile Woodie that her boyfriend's mother found in her school grounds this morning.

It has very bad canker, and this time I've no doubt due to the foul smell aswell as the yellow lesions in it's mouth.
That's one thing I didn't get with the other one but maybe as the canker only appeared once I had the bird and was able to treat it straight away, it didn't get to the smelly stage.

Funnily enough, like Jennifer, I noticed it's throat rather than the mandible in this case, looked larger than other Woodies. Maybe the canker was further down and I didn't spot it when I first checked it on bringing it home.

Cynthia, thinking back to another Woodie, where I was able to get a large lump of canker out, this piece I got from under it's tongue looked the same colour and form, so yes I think it most probably was.

Now this new baby is a lot worse and looks very poorly, so I'm really glad I've got that Flagyl to hand, I'm going to get it on it straight away and hope it can be reduced quicker than with the Spartrix.

Janet
 

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Hi Janet,
Nothing works quicker than Spartrix. I usually start with Spartrix to stabilize bird, single dose will do and after that continue with another medicine. Mix bit honey (glucose, fructose) with formula and crop feed him to restore his strenght.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I was just wondering how long before I can safely let the bird that had canker mix with my other birds, or is it not advisable to at all?

It hasn't shown any new growths for a week now and his mouth and throat are clear. Obviously I can't see inside but he seems very well and is eating and pooping ok now.

I have him in a large cage in with my others but he needs to get some flying practice and this is the only place I can give him the room to excercise.

I just don't want to put my permanent residents in any danger of catching anything.

Janet
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Thanks for that Christina.

I did decide to let them out this morning as they were both going stir crazy in the cage and trying to fly in there. I checked his throat again and it was clear and pink so hopefully they'll be ok.

Seemed to like being amongst my others. What I found funny was the hand reared one with the poor feathering squeaks when I appear, but the other one that was raised by it's parents squeaks when Bandy, the big blue banded homer gets near.

Will be very confused Woodies when they're all grown up. ;)

Janet
 

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They are soooooooooooooo cute when they squeak, I get the ones in my garden doing that every time they see food in front of them and they are way too adorable
 
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