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10 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Please Help

Mr Croaks Mr Raspy

He is a tough little pigeon but I have not cured him yet

He was raspy and I thought it might be air sac mites
wormed the lot = maybe did not do it properly because I let them eat while being wormed
and with the anti biotics I left grit in so - I stuffed up there
This is my first year with pigeons so I need a hand please

Gave him anti biotics kept him inside 3 days he improved
put him out checked again 3-4 day later still raspy

Brought him inside Again
He does not like it put him on anti biotics (no grit) wormed him again 4 hours without food

He is not well but does not seen in danger because while being treated he is fiesty wing slaps
actually pushed the bloody wire door free and spend the day in my office
the whole ordeal is stressing me and him out to be honest

He is bred for stock $100 bird but he is good and he is a "he" as he challenges me
after being put in the medicine cage

I checked for canker and can't see any but have I mis diagnosed him and it is canker?
and I am onto it before it got real bad?
and if it is mild or the beginning of a form of canker? is that making him croaky

I have resorted to using 5ml syringes to give him anti biotics and worming as well as it being in the water
so I know he is getting it

5ml Oxymav B mix
5ml Ausmectic mix

then I did
5ml of lemon and aus bush honey similar to manuka today
some bush honey is anti viral I thought if there is something resistant to anti biotics that will help
and the honey should help his energy levels

Over the top and he did not like it but seems ok this evening less tail bobbing seemed relaxed

All the other birds I only have 10 are really really healthy

ANyone got any ideas or approaches I am getting some canker medicine
and trying that after 5 more days of anti biotics

Tough as he is if I do not get this right it will take him out eventually

It is Autumn in Aus Winter is Approaching
The Guy who bred him did mention he had canker in some birds
the reason he was late is he could not give me others?

I have checked the Humidity in the loft it is as normal as it could be

I have covered the flight in case wild bird poops come in

I am worming him by syringe one more time - to be sure
then it is anti biotics anti biotics anti biotics

What else can I do?

Please Help

4,549 Posts
What antibiotics are you using, what is the dosage and for how long have you been treating him? Are you giving Nystatin in case he has some yeast?

437 Posts
Find a vet. You are not going to fix this by throwing random medications at him. I really hope you mean 0.5ml and not 5ml, because that is a huge volume to give to a pigeon.

10 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks -

Just checked him at a glance you could not tell is sick looking ok
So I think we have some progress

The 5ml doses were 5ml mixed with water at the recommended rate

The reason used a syringe is to make sure he gets it I know birds can go without
if they do not like the smell of something

Ausmectin is a cattle drench it takes out air sac mites and it is safe (from my reading)

Pigeons take around 50ml of water in a day so 15ml of medicine should not kill them
bearing in mind a little of the 5m gets spilt administering

The 2 Anti biotics I have are:

Aristopet Oral Anti Biotic
200g/Kg Tetracycline hydrochloride (equivalent to 184.8g/Kg Tetracycline)
Oxytetracycline hydrochloride 10 g/kg.

The same ingredient at different doses

To be honest with you I think it is the honey and lemon that is helping the most
All Honey is anti biotic and some Aus variants are anti viral as well.
I am not saying it is replacement to anti biotics but an addition to help them work

Vet $65+ each consultation - bird cost $100+ ( I can't afford it at the moment)
As a pigeon owners (I think) we have to have a range of medicines on hand that cover 90% of common ailments

My research indicating rasping is either air sac mites or a respiratory infection
the only thing that can be done is worming or anti biotics that first time I did not administer perfectly

Young birds are prone to respiratory infections as they develop immunity to the usual organisms
they are actually more prone this time of year in my area

My loft is 1m off the ground I have put a moisture barrier under it to reduce humidity and possible fungle growth if any

I am monitoring humidity with a digital monitor

I have put clear plastic sheet over the flight to stop any droppings from wild birds and keep the floor dry

Canker is a common illness in pigeons as there can be a 4-7 day wait for medicines to arrive
I am getting some

The breeder actually mentioned having to euthanise some chicks
he also has given me one chick with an incorrect ring number to pedigree

the other 4 birds it came with are fine

It may have something from his loft?

Either way I am just doing my best for hm he still wing slaps the crap out of you and can bash down a mesh door
on the carrier cage

I will stay on it

Any other suggestions ideas greatly appreciated

After another week if no further improvement (he is not in danger) will go vet


437 Posts
It doesn't matter if you have the drugs on hand if you aren't using them appropriately and have no idea what you're treating. Worming them likely won't hurt, but throwing antibiotics at random doses is only going to make things worse.

10 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·

I am not throwing anti biotics at random - the label says use for 5 days and consult a Vet.
the reason I used a syringe is one brand makes up only 50ml my water set up is 3-5L

So I can dose the specific bird at the specific does and ensure it gets it asap - which it did

but throwing antibiotics at random doses is only going to make things worse.
Could you please explain what you are referring to ?
are you saying you could make bacteria resistance to anti biotics?

I have checked him again this morning and he is even better than yesterday
at a glance you could not tell he was or had been sick cere is clean he is peppy
I handled him inspected him and he is fiesty back on his perch he is
pouting on his perch - when he was at his worst he bashed down a wire door
and was pretty good at wing slapping. But he was raspy and he is not today.

So I got onto him fast

You can over analyse and suffer from paralysis by analysis you have to act
I did call a Vet at Night and all they were interested in was $$$

Though i can't scientifically prove anything I credit the bush honey boosting the anti biotics
as the factor that turned the tide. The Scientific Test have been done on what I used
and they are anti viral as well as anti bacterial. But using common sense effective remedies
is a touchy subject when so much money is invested in Vaccines etc

The reality is when birds get sick there can be more than one factor or organism to fight
one is causing other secondary and tertiary conditions you can have viral and bacterial
developing at the same time - anything with parasites is just a cocktail of nastiness

At least I now know honey and lemon does not kill pigeons - well not mine anyway.

I would reduce the lemon a little next time because it was a rich dose I tasted it
just sweet but not enough not to burn - I use it on my self

you could do $500 of tests on $100 bird and identify 1 organism -

Young Birds get respiratory conditions as they develop natural immunity you have to be ready
to help some conditions are endemic and birds must develop immunity to them

If you identify a bird sick at night or when there are public holidays with vets not available
at considerable expense - what is your plan? if you do not have a medicine cabinet of remedies
birds can go down hill fast?

I read a good article from a reputable vet on managing respiratory and followed the advice
with raised lofts his advice is moisture barrier underneath

What caused it? ?

Maybe I left the bath in too long (which I did_ and they wet some seed on the floor
Maybe a wild bird pooped in the cage - the flight it now covered - possums had pooped on top as well
know carriers of disease
I had trapped some baby parrots - they came in through the bob wires - getting them out was a drama
Maybe stress of the move and new loft triggered something latent - his breeder has had issues

Our weather fluctuates like you would not believe 20 degrees C variations sometimes

Anyway he is making really good progress (very happy) I will be able to tell in a month
if he is perfect ( I am actually quite impressed by the character of this bird to be honest)
let you know if he makes it down the home straight
He has put up a good fight and appears to be winning.
His Pedigree is good - he is a stock bird - I have witnessed his loft mates of similar lines
out fly peregrines falcons before my eyes in their first week out of the loft.
Let's just say Smokey Joe, Afterburner and the Rocket Man can put on a turn of speed.
He is a keeper bred to them Fingers crossed. We will get some ripper birds that is the plan.
I do not care about winning races beating the Falcons is my priority for health and well being.

I have decided to name him " A Bottle of Smoke"
It is a song about a race horse

The Birds in the loft have Fantastic Health and Vitality (today) handled them all - I am blessed
with some nice birds and even better are coming. 4 young ones arrive soon
So we have to be ready.

They have been in contact with him long enough to catch what he has/had and have not
so they are immune or yet to get it - it has been 2 weeks+

keeping him away from the flock actually caused quite a bit of stress

If it all goes wrong or right - I have myself to blame

But so far - so good

If you have any alternative analysis approaches constructive comments criticisms
I am open to all options

Thanks again

I went to hell
And to the races
To bet on the Bottle of Smoke

437 Posts
My main concern is that you haven't actually mentioned the concentration of anything you're giving. Do you know the mg/kg dose you're using? You stopped the antibiotics inappropriately. It costs $140 to determine if a respiratory infection is bacterial and what antibiotics would be most effective at my clinic. They can also very easily rule out canker, and give you drugs in appropriate concentration so you don't have to waterboard your bird.

I'm glad your bird is feeling better.

10 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
My main concern is that you haven't actually mentioned the concentration of anything you're giving. Do you know the mg/kg dose you're using? You stopped the antibiotics inappropriately. It costs $140 to determine if a respiratory infection is bacterial and what antibiotics would be most effective at my clinic. They can also very easily rule out canker, and give you drugs in appropriate concentration so you don't have to waterboard your bird.

I'm glad your bird is feeling better.

It is really important to get this right
I just humidity checked the loft at night and checked the birds
he is not tail bobbing so - so far so good

The dosage is on the side of the bottles mg/kg varies it is one measure for 50ml of one and one measure for a litre for other brand
50ml is too small to leave in a loft it will evaporate get spilled

The bird is not being water boarded it is 5ml given 1-2ml's at a squeeze
the lemon and honey is incase it is viral and to pep up the energy with natural sugars
60% of the species in the area the honey is from produce medical grade honey
some anti biotic others anti viral (proven through testing)
I have another batch of mainly manuka

As a general rule I do apple cider vinegar some days
and honey in water on others even if they are not sick

the only thing the bird does not like is the tang of the lemon which I am reducing slightly as
the birds improves - I can assure if there is anything nasty down there it should not stand much of a chance and if any survives his immune system should clear it

If I took the bird to the Vet now they would be hard pressed to diagnose it as sick at all

The instructions on the Anti Biotic are 5 days and if symptoms persist consult a vet

It costs $140 to determine if a respiratory infection is bacterial and what antibiotics would be most effective at my clinic.

And If you miss diagnose I have no come back and what if it is more than one?

The bird cost $100-150 harsh as it sounds I can not throw money at it
It must develop natural immunity and fight this - with assistance or die - which it is doing quite well ( it hates my guts ) kind of but it is getting better eating well

every other of the 9 birds in the same environment food etc has not developed anything

From the report I read
When some fanciers talk about respiratory infection, they give the impression that they are discussing a single problem and, yet, several organisms can be involved and often simultaneously. Clinical respiratory infection in pigeons is the end result of the interplay of a number of factors but the type of infective organisms involved and the vulnerability of the birds to infection are particularly important. The usual organisms involved are Mycoplasma, Chlamydia and a range of bacteria (most commonly, E. coli ). Whether or not these organisms actually cause disease in a pigeon, if it is exposed, essentially depends on how well the pigeon is at the time of exposure and also its age and level of immunity. Any factors that cause physiological stress can weaken the bird and make it more vulnerable to developing a respiratory infection. As a general rule younger pigeons are more susceptible.

I honestly think it was something as simple as leaving the bath in the loft too long
They love it and the weather was warm they slashed around a heap made the loft floor wetter than usual and one caught something

I let them bath and remove immediately now

I did not have all the flight roof covered with clear light roofing now I do.

It is basically a late squeaker or was (it is growing fast) it needs to develop immunity it is in a risk category for respiratory regardless of all other factors just because of what it is

It is so much better no rasp it's feathers were gleaming this arvo he should be fine
(touch wood)

I have attached a couple of pics of his loft mates I took for the guy who bred them today
any bird not 100% will stick out like a sore

I am not going to be complacent

beside this bunch

these 2 are tough solid aussie long distance birds my favorites
the pics do not do them justice

Fingers crossed once I have bred from that boy he will do 1000km+ and more
and then break out in a sweat so will his babies

they are coming along not mature yet so but far so good
and bottle of smoke is just a month or 2 younger so needs some TLC

I will take his photo next weekend he was looking good felt good in the hand
smokey grey and dark around the neck

He is getting 5 days of anti biotics and I will re assess next weekend
any croaking rasping he is coming inside and then to the bloody vets

10 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Bottle of Smoke is all good
Checked him thoroughly was checking him each night all week
I want bring him inside for a photo - he has had enough drama
Bouncy and shimmering
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