Hello. My ringneck dove, El, seems to be sick and I'd love some advice from anyone who may be familiar with this kind of thing, as the vets I've been taking her to have largely been guessing.
Living conditions:
El is roughly 7 years old and female. I got her about 5 years ago as a rescue.
She lives indoors, in a fairly large double cage with a divider separating her and my other dove (they don't get along enough to cohabitate).
Her diet is usually mostly Hagen Pigeon & Dove mix, but due to recent shortages she has been on Kaytee Supreme dove food since December. When available, I will usually mix in some Roudybush pellet crumble as well, though it has been just the dove mix for ~6 months or so.
I offer grit in a separate dish, usually Living World Clay-Cal with charcoal and oystershell mixed in, though recently it's been a mix of the Clay-Cal and Kaytee High-Calcium Grit (again due to stock issues).
She does lay eggs from time to time, usually seeing some inanimate object as her mate (the target changes frequently), and sometimes laying only one egg instead of a pair (the vets don't know why), or continuing to lay more eggs even if I don't take the first two away.
She is usually a sort of light/picky eater, but she tends to weigh in a little heavy anyway, coming in at 160g in December. Her feathers have always looked good and well-taken care of with no picking. She's generally alert and somewhat nervous/excitable (she will sometimes vibrate when approached by novelty but quickly calms down).
Current events:
18th: I noticed she hadn't really been touching her food and the walls of her cage had signs of recent vomiting (dried up chunks of food). I moved her into a smaller enclosure in my bathroom to keep her in a warm (27-30C) and humid space, hoping this would help her like it has in the past (previous scares wrt eggs not coming out or regurgitation). While she's in there I generally spend all my free time keeping her company so she can get some exercise and not be too bored. Checking her over, she feels like she's got an egg about ready to go but it's unusual for her to stop eating entirely just because of an egg. I tried to check in her mouth, but I could spot no differences between her and my other bird. She was still preening, alert, bright-eyed and drinking fine, but she gagged a few times (regurgitating motion but nothing coming out). When I brought her to the vet a month ago for the unusual regurgitation, they found nothing wrong and chalked it up to hormones, but recommended I do a fecal analysis if she took ill again. I went to the vet to get a sample cup.
Droppings: Very little feces, watery, somewhat yellowish urates.
19th: Still energetic, I had her perched on my person for most of the day so I could collect her very watery droppings since it was impossible to scrape liquid up from the bedding. I put a spray of millet in her enclosure and she actually ate some of that for a while. I dropped off the sample for analysis in the evening and nothing eventful really happened after that.
Droppings: Very little feces, watery, somewhat yellowish urates.
20th: She started looking more lethargic in the morning. She was closing her eyes about a third of the time I was with her, and I could see her bobbing as she breathed. I took her to an emergency vet where she was examined by a vet who does not usually treat birds, but keeps parrots at home. He indicated that he was not familiar with doves (asked if she was wild, guessed it might be old age despite her only being 7) and that the facility didn't have the right equipment to really care for birds. He said she looked fine, but noted her urates were sort of green and said it might be fatty liver. I was sold a packet of formula (Emerald Sustain HDN, for dogs) and told to force feed her until the fecal analysis returned. I tried various ways to feed her this formula, but she didn't ingest much of it, if any. Online friends who gave me tips for feeding have expressed doubts at the vet's ideas, stating that doves are essentially obligate granivores and generally have no issues with a seed diet. They gave me a recipe for an electrolyte solution to add to her water, to try and at least give her some energy since she was still drinking. Her crop kind of sticks out at rest more than I feel it should if she's not eating.
Droppings: Very little feces, watery, greenish urates. Fecal volume increased in the evening and got really dark.
21st: She was looking kind of normal again in terms of energy and breathing, though she gagged in the morning (nothing came out). I was told by some friends to check her keel, and she feels quite thin compared to my other bird. I went to the vet to get a syringe and catheter to try and tube feed the formula to her. I made some stops on my way home to pick up some Roudybush pellet crumble, Morning Bird Tetratex broad-spectrum antibiotic in case I might need it, and a food scale to weigh her. Nervous about the risks of aspiration in tube feeding a bird without any training, I decided to try and hand feed her some regular food first, hearing that peas are generally good for avoiding aspiration. I managed to get her to swallow a little pea, and immediately she showed an interest in her food dish for the first time all week. She ate mostly the pellet crumble throughout the evening. After eating, she did the "yawning" crop adjustment motions a lot, roughly 10 times in a span of a few minutes.
Droppings: Small and somewhat watery, feces dark and tarry, urates more pale yellowish again.
Weight before going to sleep: 140-143g (she wasn't quite standing on the right spot of the scale)
22nd: She vomited her food onto the bedding and walls of her enclosure overnight. Still alert and drinking the electrolyte solution, still somewhat interested in food but I've yet to confirm if she's actually eating it. I'm wondering if she has a problem with her crop. It still looks more prominent than usual (see photo). I tried to feel it to check for sour crop but it doesn't feel that different from my other bird's crop. I really wish I knew how to check this stuff properly.
Droppings so far: Somewhat pale yellow urates, feces are starting to reach a more normal volume and consistency but still sort of dark.
EDIT: Her droppings now contain undigested seeds.
Weight in the morning: 135g
Results of the fecal: Negative for parasites, which is apparently all they checked
I do have some more photos and short videos (gagging motion, visible breathing) I can add if it helps. I didn't want to clutter up this already super long post.
If anyone has any ideas or advice I'd love to hear it.
I'm thinking about trying the antibiotics for a few days but I worry about 1. it making her even more food averse when I still don't know how to tube feed and 2. it says to avoid calcium supplements while on it so that might mean taking away her grit, which worries me a bit.
I'm in the process of booking another vet visit with an avian vet a few hours drive from here but I won't know what their availability is like until at least Monday. I'm also scouring the internet for ideas.
Living conditions:
El is roughly 7 years old and female. I got her about 5 years ago as a rescue.
She lives indoors, in a fairly large double cage with a divider separating her and my other dove (they don't get along enough to cohabitate).
Her diet is usually mostly Hagen Pigeon & Dove mix, but due to recent shortages she has been on Kaytee Supreme dove food since December. When available, I will usually mix in some Roudybush pellet crumble as well, though it has been just the dove mix for ~6 months or so.
I offer grit in a separate dish, usually Living World Clay-Cal with charcoal and oystershell mixed in, though recently it's been a mix of the Clay-Cal and Kaytee High-Calcium Grit (again due to stock issues).
She does lay eggs from time to time, usually seeing some inanimate object as her mate (the target changes frequently), and sometimes laying only one egg instead of a pair (the vets don't know why), or continuing to lay more eggs even if I don't take the first two away.
She is usually a sort of light/picky eater, but she tends to weigh in a little heavy anyway, coming in at 160g in December. Her feathers have always looked good and well-taken care of with no picking. She's generally alert and somewhat nervous/excitable (she will sometimes vibrate when approached by novelty but quickly calms down).
Current events:
18th: I noticed she hadn't really been touching her food and the walls of her cage had signs of recent vomiting (dried up chunks of food). I moved her into a smaller enclosure in my bathroom to keep her in a warm (27-30C) and humid space, hoping this would help her like it has in the past (previous scares wrt eggs not coming out or regurgitation). While she's in there I generally spend all my free time keeping her company so she can get some exercise and not be too bored. Checking her over, she feels like she's got an egg about ready to go but it's unusual for her to stop eating entirely just because of an egg. I tried to check in her mouth, but I could spot no differences between her and my other bird. She was still preening, alert, bright-eyed and drinking fine, but she gagged a few times (regurgitating motion but nothing coming out). When I brought her to the vet a month ago for the unusual regurgitation, they found nothing wrong and chalked it up to hormones, but recommended I do a fecal analysis if she took ill again. I went to the vet to get a sample cup.
Droppings: Very little feces, watery, somewhat yellowish urates.
19th: Still energetic, I had her perched on my person for most of the day so I could collect her very watery droppings since it was impossible to scrape liquid up from the bedding. I put a spray of millet in her enclosure and she actually ate some of that for a while. I dropped off the sample for analysis in the evening and nothing eventful really happened after that.
Droppings: Very little feces, watery, somewhat yellowish urates.
20th: She started looking more lethargic in the morning. She was closing her eyes about a third of the time I was with her, and I could see her bobbing as she breathed. I took her to an emergency vet where she was examined by a vet who does not usually treat birds, but keeps parrots at home. He indicated that he was not familiar with doves (asked if she was wild, guessed it might be old age despite her only being 7) and that the facility didn't have the right equipment to really care for birds. He said she looked fine, but noted her urates were sort of green and said it might be fatty liver. I was sold a packet of formula (Emerald Sustain HDN, for dogs) and told to force feed her until the fecal analysis returned. I tried various ways to feed her this formula, but she didn't ingest much of it, if any. Online friends who gave me tips for feeding have expressed doubts at the vet's ideas, stating that doves are essentially obligate granivores and generally have no issues with a seed diet. They gave me a recipe for an electrolyte solution to add to her water, to try and at least give her some energy since she was still drinking. Her crop kind of sticks out at rest more than I feel it should if she's not eating.
Droppings: Very little feces, watery, greenish urates. Fecal volume increased in the evening and got really dark.
21st: She was looking kind of normal again in terms of energy and breathing, though she gagged in the morning (nothing came out). I was told by some friends to check her keel, and she feels quite thin compared to my other bird. I went to the vet to get a syringe and catheter to try and tube feed the formula to her. I made some stops on my way home to pick up some Roudybush pellet crumble, Morning Bird Tetratex broad-spectrum antibiotic in case I might need it, and a food scale to weigh her. Nervous about the risks of aspiration in tube feeding a bird without any training, I decided to try and hand feed her some regular food first, hearing that peas are generally good for avoiding aspiration. I managed to get her to swallow a little pea, and immediately she showed an interest in her food dish for the first time all week. She ate mostly the pellet crumble throughout the evening. After eating, she did the "yawning" crop adjustment motions a lot, roughly 10 times in a span of a few minutes.
Droppings: Small and somewhat watery, feces dark and tarry, urates more pale yellowish again.
Weight before going to sleep: 140-143g (she wasn't quite standing on the right spot of the scale)
22nd: She vomited her food onto the bedding and walls of her enclosure overnight. Still alert and drinking the electrolyte solution, still somewhat interested in food but I've yet to confirm if she's actually eating it. I'm wondering if she has a problem with her crop. It still looks more prominent than usual (see photo). I tried to feel it to check for sour crop but it doesn't feel that different from my other bird's crop. I really wish I knew how to check this stuff properly.
Droppings so far: Somewhat pale yellow urates, feces are starting to reach a more normal volume and consistency but still sort of dark.
EDIT: Her droppings now contain undigested seeds.
Weight in the morning: 135g
Results of the fecal: Negative for parasites, which is apparently all they checked
I do have some more photos and short videos (gagging motion, visible breathing) I can add if it helps. I didn't want to clutter up this already super long post.
If anyone has any ideas or advice I'd love to hear it.
I'm thinking about trying the antibiotics for a few days but I worry about 1. it making her even more food averse when I still don't know how to tube feed and 2. it says to avoid calcium supplements while on it so that might mean taking away her grit, which worries me a bit.
I'm in the process of booking another vet visit with an avian vet a few hours drive from here but I won't know what their availability is like until at least Monday. I'm also scouring the internet for ideas.