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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello all,
Want to start by saying what a great forum.

I've recently started attempting to hand raise baby doves brought into the Veterinary hospital that I work at.

So far I'm not having much success which is disheartening, as I've raised parrots and so forth without problems in the past.

I have a pair of babies brought to me four days ago. I'm not sure how old they are, they are feathered but still have a few of baby feathers on them.

One, the bigger of the two has an obvious injury to his face/eye, and if he makes it I presume he will be blind in one eye. He's been a bit of a struggle as he wouldn't eat and so I had to crop needle him. I noticed today he had seed in his crop so he is learning to eat now!

The other, the smaller of the two was doing really well, eating the granivore mix happily and I thought he was brilliant, but today developed a head tilt. Tonight he is even more neurologically deranged, ataxic and goes into fits of flapping his wings. I don't think he's going to make it through the night...but I'm wondering what went wrong?!

I've been giving them a high quality granivore rearing mix as per instructions. The only additive I've used is Fungilin, to help prevent sour crop as advised to me by my Veterinarian. Could this have caused the neurological signs?

I'm really quite devestated that it seems I'm going to lose the little guy, because he really was doing so well up until today.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Kaie
 

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Hi kaie,


Are they drinking well on their own?

Making say, 45 poops each in 24 hours thereabouts? Or?

Poops/Urates of normal appearance/solidity/shape?


Images?


Salmonella could do it...Canker m-a-y-b-e...a Virus, m-a-y-be...dehydration could do it...( staggers, poor balance, weakness, tilting...)


'Doves'...

Collared or 'European' Doves?

If so, I am not permitted to comment or share anything by the site owners/managers.

Morning Doves?

I am good to go...

There is no difference worth mentioning of course between the two far as any of these or related concerns, but, so it goes...


Phil
Lv
 

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milk for squabs

Hello all,
Want to start by saying what a great forum.

I've recently started attempting to hand raise baby doves brought into the Veterinary hospital that I work at.

So far I'm not having much success which is disheartening, as I've raised parrots and so forth without problems in the past.

I have a pair of babies brought to me four days ago. I'm not sure how old they are, they are feathered but still have a few of baby feathers on them.

One, the bigger of the two has an obvious injury to his face/eye, and if he makes it I presume he will be blind in one eye. He's been a bit of a struggle as he wouldn't eat and so I had to crop needle him. I noticed today he had seed in his crop so he is learning to eat now!

The other, the smaller of the two was doing really well, eating the granivore mix happily and I thought he was brilliant, but today developed a head tilt. Tonight he is even more neurologically deranged, ataxic and goes into fits of flapping his wings. I don't think he's going to make it through the night...but I'm wondering what went wrong?!

I've been giving them a high quality granivore rearing mix as per instructions. The only additive I've used is Fungilin, to help prevent sour crop as advised to me by my Veterinarian. Could this have caused the neurological signs?

I'm really quite devestated that it seems I'm going to lose the little guy, because he really was doing so well up until today.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Kaie
i raised twinkie on kaytee,,wild bird formula..then gradually tried kaytee wild bird food,,and pigeon seed/food---he is alive and healthy-7 mon. old now,,sincerely james waller
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Hi kaie,


Are they drinking well on their own?

Making say, 45 poops each in 24 hours thereabouts? Or?

Poops/Urates of normal appearance/solidity/shape?


Images?


Salmonella could do it...Canker m-a-y-b-e...a Virus, m-a-y-be...dehydration could do it...( staggers, poor balance, weakness, tilting...)


'Doves'...

Collared or 'European' Doves?

If so, I am not permitted to comment or share anything by the site owners/managers.

Morning Doves?

I am good to go...

There is no difference worth mentioning of course between the two far as any of these or related concerns, but, so it goes...


Phil
Lv
Hi Phil,
The one that has the neuro signs was producing perfect poos. I don't think it could ever drink on its own, as it was always calling out to me for food (and still is even though its still got the terrible head tilt).

The one who has not got the neuro signs did have terrible poo, mucousy and not well formed.

I'm fairly sure they are spotted doves (as they are common in the area I am in - which is by the way Queensland, Australia).
I am feeding them Woombaroo granivore rearing mix, which is a reputable brand of animal rearing supplements over here.
I just went and checked on them, and all the poos in the cage look pretty good this morning.

I took a photo of the one with the head tilt but the photo just makes it look like its looking at something! To look at him, he actually doesn't look too bad this morning, but his head is always on the side.
Any help is much appreciated, I really want them to survive so that everyone at work will stop telling me to give up on trying to save things!!
Kaie
 

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Hi kaio,



Spotted Dove...Morning Dove...Peas-in-a-Pod.


Is the feeding mix fresh and non-rancid? Smells good? Tastes good?

If not, throw it away, and get a new one...transfer contents into a seal-able plastic Bag, exclude Air from the bag when putting away, keep the Bag in the Can or Drum, and keep that in the Refrigerator.


Could be a Vitamin deficiency...B-group...among others...


Powdered formula mixes, once open, soon spoil...the rancidity prevents Vitamin absorbsion, makes other woes also...


I have had good luck in guiding Baby Doves to drink, by presenting a small low Cup of body-temperature Water, moistening my finger tips in it slightly, and, softly guiding their Beak - keeping my moist-warm finger tips on their Beak sides AS I guide the Beak slightly into the tepid Water...where...they are happy to drink-like-Horses.

By 'Baby' I mean 8 or 10 days old.

Older ones, if feeling at ease with one's fussings, will do the same.


They need to feel the moist-warm finger tips on their Beak sides, or, they will refuse to drink.

After a while, they elect to drink when merely guided to the first sips being finger tips on Beak sides and one can let go and they finish drinking...and soon one does not need to keep one's finger tips on their Beak sides...and, then, they drink on their own as the like and it is no never-mind to them if they do so by themselves with no guidance.

So...check your formula-food-mix-powder...

Get him drinking with your 'guidance'...


Any 'yellow' color to the Urates?

Or, are the Urates like white Water Color, not-a-paste, but like thin paint?


Phil
Lv
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Hi kaio,



Spotted Dove...Morning Dove...Peas-in-a-Pod.


Is the feeding mix fresh and non-rancid? Smells good? Tastes good?

If not, throw it away, and get a new one...transfer contents into a seal-able plastic Bag, exclude Air from the bag when putting away, keep the Bag in the Can or Drum, and keep that in the Refrigerator.


Could be a Vitamin deficiency...B-group...among others...


Powdered formula mixes, once open, soon spoil...the rancidity prevents Vitamin absorbsion, makes other woes also...


I have had good luck in guiding Baby Doves to drink, by presenting a small low Cup of body-temperature Water, moistening my finger tips in it slightly, and, softly guiding their Beak - keeping my moist-warm finger tips on their Beak sides AS I guide the Beak slightly into the tepid Water...where...they are happy to drink-like-Horses.

By 'Baby' I mean 8 or 10 days old.

Older ones, if feeling at ease with one's fussings, will do the same.


They need to feel the moist-warm finger tips on their Beak sides, or, they will refuse to drink.

After a while, they elect to drink when merely guided to the first sips being finger tips on Beak sides and one can let go and they finish drinking...and soon one does not need to keep one's finger tips on their Beak sides...and, then, they drink on their own as the like and it is no never-mind to them if they do so by themselves with no guidance.

So...check your formula-food-mix-powder...

Get him drinking with your 'guidance'...


Any 'yellow' color to the Urates?

Or, are the Urates like white Water Color, not-a-paste, but like thin paint?


Phil
Lv
Hi Phil,
The food is good, smells good, tastes good. I make a fresh batch each time I feed them and throw out any left over.

The bird will still eat despite when left alone, his head will tilt so far to the side it will rest on the ground :(

White urates, paste, I wouldn't say they were too thin.

He doesn't really pick up any when he is fed, which makes me think its probably not dehydration.

:( Very upsetting poor little thing looks terrible.

K
 

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Hi kaie,


I can't think of anything else to propose...other than if he is eating well, pooping well, making good Urates, and is drinking well and adequately hydrated...then, he either has an on-going condition from a muscle or nerve injury, or, maybe, has PPMV in one of it's occasionally odder presentations.

Does he walk well? Fleet and agile? Trotting?

Does he stand sturdily? Good balance?

Is he active?

How old is this 'Baby' would you say?


Try again on the images please?


Phil
Lv
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Well here is a photo of him that best shows his head tilt, if I attached it properly... This will probably give you an idea of his age as well, I am really not sure as I have only ever raised parrots in the past.
He doesn't ambulate well at all. Most of the time he appears to be sleeping, but then at other times will perk up and look like he's trying to preen himself.

Tonight his poos are slightly runny and seem a bit mucousy, however when I wake him up, he vocalises and eats from the spoon. When he's out he is more alert and will pick his head up a bit more to look around.

I'm fairly sure we don't have pigeon paramyxovirus in Australia.

It's definitely weird!!

Thanks Phil
K
 

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Hi kaie,



Ohhhhh...such a little sweetie...


Well...one thing you could consider, is to try some Antibiotics for a week...and see if anything changes.


Do you have any on hand? And, have you used them before?


Clearly...something is not right with the little Dove.

He should be vigorous, vital, probably flying by now, at least enough to say he is...and, should be an agile active hopper and trotter.

So...something has got him down, and is weighing on him.



Phil
Lv
 

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I'm fairly sure we don't have pigeon paramyxovirus in Australia.
That used to be the case, but I am not certain whether things have changed. What you do have is Dr Colin Walker who is a pigeon specialist, you could send the case history and photos, maybe have a telephone consultation?

http://www.auspigeonco.com.au/
 

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There are so very many causes for neurological symptoms in birds that you have absolutely no way of knowing if this little dove has pmv, without testing for it. It would be far better to start with an examination of the poop... a float and gram stain.
The cause can be bacterial, parasites,viral [others besides pmv], fungal, etc.
 

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Don't think a head tilt is likely to be PMV even if there have been any cases of PMV in Australia. We had a thread very recently on two birds with head tilt. I don't claim to know everything about it, but purely a head tilt isn't a symptom I have observed in PMV. I have seen it in a bird with an ear infection. Dr Walker probably is a good bet, at least I've found him so.

John
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Hi everyone,
Thanks for so many responses. It's nice to know so many people are so dedicated to these sweet little creatures.

I started him on Baytril (enrofloxacin) today, thinking maybe it is an ear infection. So will see if this helps or not.

Thanks all!!

K
 

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Hi

It would be advisable to either see a vet or contact Colin Walker i think. There may be other reasons for this head tilt. Ear infection is only one possibility, and if there are any other unusual signs which may be neurological, as opposed to just discomfort, then it probably has another cause.

John
 

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Hi K,




I agree with John, that if you can access Dr. Walker, or other sympathetic Avian Vet, then the Dove's issues may be more narrowly identified, and, appropriate regimens elected.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Hi again,
As it is, I work at a Veterinary hospital, and as such they have been getting seen to by the Vets there every day (except for today, which I had off).

Whatever the causative agent of the neurological signs is, I'm fairly certain now that it is infectious in origin, as the bird that originally had the head tilt, has made a marked improvement and was, in fact flying around the house today. Unfortunately, the opposite applies to the other baby, who had been doing rather well, until today when he developed acute neurological signs almost identical to that of his sibling.

Frustratingly, this morning they both looked brilliant and I was quite excited thinking I may have pulled them both through. Now things don't look so good again!!

K
 

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I would still give Dr Walker a ring as he is an internationally recognised specialist when it comes to the pigeon family. Treat it as an interveterinary consultation! It might make all the difference.
 
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