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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
On Sunday evening we saw a young bird that didn’t look good. It is actually one of Ladylove and Buddies last chicks – now about 4-5 months. Buddy chased them off their box soon after Ladylove was released about 3 weeks ago and it has roosted on the Bougainvillea with about 5 other birds.

We saw it with its neck stretched up and it vomited seed. We caught it and it has been indoors in a cage. On Monday we tried to first get an idea of its condition and its poop.
• Its thin – so hasn’t eaten properly for a while
• Yesterday the poop had some undigested seed in and it also vomited some seed
• Its poop is mostly white and has some has a small green faecal part , and not a lot of poop
• Often it does something I have never seen before – its neck is stretched up and something prominent in its throat/neck area – we presume it’s “oesophagus”/the crop/part of the digestive system or the trachea but we aren’t sure – moves to the birds left and back again, repeatedly . It seems that it’s on inhalation.
• Its poop smells a bit fermented/sour
• Its beak also smells a bit sour too
• Last night its crop was empty
• Its empty now too – so it probably hasn’t eaten today?

As it had some similar symptoms to Ladylove – vomited and undigested seed- we started it on the anifungal that we had left over from treating her, as well as Baytril last night. We also gave it some Heptonic. It has ACV, vitamins and probiotic in its water and is under a lamp.

It didn’t look like it vomited this afternoon, and the poop didn’t have seed in it, but it may not even have eaten

Does anyone know what is happening in its neck area and why?

I am not sure what else to treat it with.
 

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I would treat him for canker. Metronidazole 50 mg once daily for 10 days, and hand feed. Either get the baby bird formula, or you can try frozen peas which have been defrosted and warmed under warm running water. Metro can also make them vomit on an empty crop, so feed first, then medicate. If he still vomits, try giving a few drops of Pepto Bismol about 30 min before feeding and medicating. Is he drinking a lot? If he is over drinking, which they often do with canker, then remove the water dish and offer it several times a day, but just don't let him fill up on it. Otherwise, it will often just come up again and can aspirate the bird. I would get the med in tablet form, as the stuff you add to the drinking water is not what you want. You need something you can give the bird in his beak, not in the drinking water. That way you are sure that he got the right dose. If you don't have Metronidazole, you can often find Fish zole in pet stores that sell tropical fish supplies. You would want the one that has just Metronidazole in it. Nothing else.

Edit: Just noticed where you are located. Maybe where you are you can get the medicine in a pharmacy. I'll PM Marina as she should know where you can get what you need.
 

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You can get the meds from Diamond pigeon stud. They are in Kimberley but can speed post to you. Their telno 053 831 2619. They also have a website www.diamondpigeonstud.co.za

Get the meditrich tablets, it's a product from Medpet. Costs R75 for a 100 tablets and it works well. I always make sure I have those meds in stock.

Otherwise, if you live in Cape Town maybe a large petshop will also stock these medicines. You can try Panorama petshop, unfortunately I don't have their no.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks. I do have Metro and we do get our meds from Panorama Pet shop.

I don't think he has eaten or drunk water over the past day- and I am wondering if her can? His neck area seems to almost be going into spasms with the trachea or oesophagus contracting to his left, then right, then back to left as he breathes.

I think we may asphyxiate him if we try and feed him?

I just offered him runny handrearing food and all he did was put his beak in and not even try and sip

Could this be some form of PMV?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
These "neck/trachea/oesophagus spasms?" are almost constant.

He basically rocks back and forward when he breathes with his neck held high, with these contractions/movement happening within his neck/upper chest area all the time.

He had a sip or two of the runny hand-rear food

I have no idea as to what is causing this!
 

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Poor bird! Are you treating for canker? That prominent thing in the throat is probably the trachea that you're seeing. Seems like it gets very prominent when the crop is empty and the bird is losing weight.

A while ago I rescued a young ringneck dove. He made very weird movements with his neck and crop, going in a circular way like he was adjusting the seeds in his crop. Did this especially after eating, followed by open mouth breathing.

I treated him with Meditrich and Nystatin and after 3 days the movements stopped and he started eating by himself again. He made a full recovery.

Does not sound like PMV to me. If he's not eating and you don't want to feed peas, try putting some formula into the front of his mouth with an eyedropper.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
He tried to eat a few seeds this afternoon when I held a small container up to his beak, but these uncoordinated, involuntary neck movements just take his head into all different positions and so he can't get his head down to peck properly. When he manages to get his head to the bowl, he eats one out of every few that he manages to pick up - the others get dropped when his neck goes crazy again. He can't control his neck.

He drank some electrolyte solution and had a little bit more of the runny handrear food. I'll try with a dropper to see if we can feed him some more.
 

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Are you going to get the canker meds?
 

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I've seen that before. Almost like he is uncomfortable and trying to fix it. I think the bird did have canker.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I have taken 2 short videos on my camera but am unable to attach those as this site only recognises 5 types of attachments e.g jpeg and mine is .mov.

Any ideas re this techno hitch?

I have Meditrich tablets
 

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Some people use You Tube and just give us the link.

I would start him on Meditrich for 10 days.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I have given him half a Meditrich as he is so light and thin.

He tried to eat a bit today but not much at all. We are still trying to give him some handrear food and rehydrate but he is not getting much in and so is really thin. He must have been sick for a while before we noticed it. Always hard when they are free flying.

When his head is tucked in one doesn't see the movements as much compared to when his neck is more upright. The 3 short clips that were joined together show a mix of the neck involuntary movements as well as how he "rocks" back and forward.
 

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I would have started with the whole tablet, then gone to 50 mg (1/2 tablet) a day, for 10 days and see how it goes. If you wanted to cover more bases, you could add Enrofloxacyn (Baytril) also.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I was just concerned to give a full tablet which Medpet often says on their bottles are for 450 - 500g birds. He is SO light - easily weights only half of that.

He has been on 0.05ml of Baytril since Monday evening together with the anti- fungal that we treated his mother Ladylove with about 3-4 weeks ago.

Late last night when we took him out the cage to give him the those meds, he actually ate a whole lot of small seed by himself. That was about 3 hours after giving him the half Meditrich.

This morning his neck is still doing the same thing and he is perched in sleep mode and not interested in food yet, just had a few sips of rehydrate with probiotics in
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
This little guy isn't showing improvement and is getting thinner and less stable on his feet.

Has anyone else seen or had a bird with this kind of condition of involuntary movement or spasms in is neck or digestive tract? - as seen in the short video.
https://youtu.be/jGwcrXR7ZrY

We have tried to feed him and he just gets little bits in.

We put him outside in the cage in the sun this afternoon when the other birds were feeding and he tried to eat some seed but he must have vomited it up shortly thereafter. He had also vomited a bit this morning - which he hadn't done for a few days.

Today will be his 6th dose of Baytril and Ketoconizole the antifungal, and 3rd dose of Meditrich ...... and it doesn't seem to be showing any positive effect.
With little food in his crop , most of these meds are going into an "empty crop".
 

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If he keeps on vomiting, the meds don't stay in the crop either so they don't get a chance to start working.

I would remove all the seeds and only concentrate on getting formula into him, easier to digest and this hopefully won't make him vomit. If you can only keep him alive until the meds start working. Tube feeding directly into the crop would have helped a lot, but then you need someone to show you exactly how to do it.
 

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Totally agree with Marina. Formula may be easier and may stay down. Here we give a few drops of Pepto Bismol 30 min before feeding or medicating, and that does help to stop the vomiting.

Metro is known to make them vomit on an empty crop, so feeding first helps. If you can get something like the Pepto to give first, that would be helpful too. Also, give the meds at spaced intervals. Not all together.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I didn't know that vomiting was a side effect of Metro - and he has started vomiting again since I started that.

We have been giving the Metro a few hours apart from the Baytril and Keto

The problem with feeding him or giving him something to drink, and even when they are at room temperature or warmed, is that it all seems to send his ?crop? into more spasm. Also when he feeds.

I have called a 24 hours vet centre this morning to try and find out if its possible to give the bird a Buscopan injection or part of a Hyospasmol tablet to see if this calms the spasms but they don't have info on the effect or use of this in birds.

Does anyone know if these meds are safe to use in birds and if so, what dose?

We have 10mg Hyospasmol tablets that we recently got for our one dogs who had Irritable bowel disorder and was given a Buscopan jab and then Flagyl tablets, and they gave us Hyospasmol tablet to take home if it recurs.

I am going to email the vet I have previously taken the last 2 pigeons to, but being Sunday she might only see this tomorrow sometime.

Despite bring on Keto an antifungal for 6 days now, his poop (which are very runny and now more green) still smells sour.

Pepto Bismal isn't available from pharmacies here. It seems the only equivalent is Gaviscon. Marina do you know if it is appropriate to use in birds? I have emailed Diamond Stud but no reply yet. I didn't see a place to order from on their website or a list of their products .

We gave him a tiny dose of Petcam last night (after feeding) which is for pain relief and inflammation as we don't know how much discomfort he is in due to these spasms. On a previous occasion an avian vet had prescribed this for a small concussed dove so we had an idea of dosage.

He hasn't vomited or pooped since late last night but even now when tucked in and sleeping, his ?crop?/digestive tract or trachea is still moving around.

We still don't know what is causing these spasms/involuntary movements. Cramping??
 
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