[Reti]

I have been flooded with babies, in the past two weeks I had five coming in. Anyways, just now I brought home a 10 day old baby. I noticed seeds and some cooked food sauce in the carrier and his tummy was all caked with it so I took him out to wash his tummy and noticed more and more is coming out. After I managed to clean his chest I noticed a big part of the skin flap coming loose and you can see his inside. I can see the crop but not where it is torn. I gave a little water and it is coming out from above the flap (from inside) I don't know if the description is clear enough but you get the picture.
He doesn't look too good and I doubt he can make it. I called the lady from the raptor center back (where he came from) but she is gone for the day.
I don't know what to do here, any ideas?

Reti

 

[wolfwood]

Sounds like you need to see a vet. Is there one nearby? Others will be on soon and they may have another solution for you. Good luck!

 

[Reti]

Sounds like you need to see a vet. Is there one nearby? Others will be on soon and they may have another solution for you. Good luck!

The vet is 170$ to walk in the door after hours (emergency fee). And honestly I don't think this baby would make it through anesthesia and extensive surgery to repair the damage.

Reti

 

[Charis]

You might be surprised. They really do quite well.
Perhaps we can raise the funds here to pay for having the crop repaired.

 

[Reti]

Thanks Charis. I got hold of the rehabber and I will take him back to her in the morning, they do have vets and experts on staff. Hope the little guy will make it through the night.
She suggested to tube some water, but as far as I go with the syringe and tube the water is still spilling out. I am injecting some sterile water subcutaneously to keep the guy hydrated.
I am sure he has internal bleeding as his tummy is distended and the skin turns blue. The vet bill in this case would be in the thousands and we don't even know how extensive the damage is, it doesn't look good though.

Reti

 

[Skyeking]

I'm so sorry to hear about this little one, I hope he makes it to the rehabbers'.

 

[Reti]

He made it through the night and is a little perkier today.
I am not sure about taking him to the rehabber now, what if they put him to sleep. He certainly has a strong will to live. I gave him two medium sized pellets and I am waiting to see if they will be digested, if they do and I continue hydrating him with subcutaneous fluids maybe the wound can heal on its own?
How long does it take for such wounds to heal?

Reti

 

[Charis]

Reti...if the food is coming out the way you say, it probably won't heal on its own. and it does need to be stitched up if there is enough to stitch. Sometimes there isn't. I think this bird needs a vet rather than a rehabber.

 

[spirit wings]

Reti...if the food is coming out the way you say, it probably won't heal on its own. and it does need to be stitched up if there is enough to stitch. Sometimes there isn't. I think this bird needs a vet rather than a rehabber.

yes the vet may beable to use a "glue" vetbond, that they sometimes use for small or delicate tissue, then he may need to be fed small numerouse meals instead of a full one at one time.

 

[Charis]

yes the vet may beable to use a "glue" vetbond, that they sometimes use for small or delicate tissue, then he may need to be fed small numerouse meals instead of a full one at one time.

Yes that would work if there is enough tissue to glue....sometimes there isn't.

 

[Reti]

I also think he needs a vet and the only one who will see this bird is the one who will also charge two arms and two legs. I am stuck here. Today he will charge the emergency fee and tomorrow he is out. He works only four days a week.
I had another look and seems like his insides are torn pretty bad. I flushed with some water and got a couple more seeds out but no pellets so I gave three more.
I don't know if the glue would work there is too much damage there.
I will sent an email off to my old vet see what he has to say.

Reti

 

[Pidgey]

Can you hold him somewhat upright while food and water's getting through? The rip in the actual crop is obviously over to the side somewhere out of view--won't be that far. Get a magnifying glass and a small flashlight and see if you can look inside.

Pidgey

 

[Reti]

Can you hold him somewhat upright while food and water's getting through? The rip in the actual crop is obviously over to the side somewhere out of view--won't be that far. Get a magnifying glass and a small flashlight and see if you can look inside.

Pidgey

Did that and flushed the wound. Lots more seeds came out and the pellets. The rip seems to be on the front of the crop, including lower part of the esophagus and all the ways down more than halfway of the crop.
Doesn't seem there is much that can be done here.

Reti

 

[Pidgey]

Can you take and post a picture?

Pidgey

 

[spirit wings]

Yes that would work if there is enough tissue to glue....sometimes there isn't.

true, but I tend to be optimistic.

 

[Pidgey]

Be sure and look at this one:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f45/self-destructing-32635.html#post348246

...which was a continuation of this one:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f45/hit-by-car-32225.html

I talked with Reti on the phone about this one. Yes, it's a difficult presentation--there's actually a hole on either side of the crop, one side being over a couple of inches long and in the shape of a "U" or "J". Crop contents can come out both sides and can flow down subcutaneously to the area between the legs. Now that's not inside the actual abdomen--it's just subcutaneous. So, if Reti just tapes, glues or sutures the skin together at the wound, food and water will flow down there. However, some would make it into the proventriculus and, therefore, the system to be used to live another day. Management of the other problems will turn into exactly that: management. It's not so different to what Pierpont was like. In cases like this, it usually takes more courage to emotionally deal with things and do what has to be done under the circumstances.

Pidgey

 

[Bella_F]

Dear Reti,

I just want to send you many good wishes; what you are doing takes tons of courage and strength! I'm not so experienced with wounds, but the ones I've seen in my wild doves have healed strikingly quickly. I had one male dove who had the side of his whole chest torn right open as well as talon wounds from a hawk attack. He was walking and flying the next day, and seemed much better within the week. They are very hardy birds, so don't give up hope.

 

[Reti]

Well, the wound of this little one is much bigger and when If lift the skin flap there is much empty space. Actually I think I am looking into the crop. I inserted a tube down his throat and it comes out, dangling in what used to be the crop. Very extensive wound. I am thinking even the vet would put him to sleep.
Now if my old vet was here, he likes to experiment and maybe we could insert and suture a tube into the small intestine and then suture the crop and until that heals feed him through the intestinal tube, something like a PEG tube.
When Lee gets home I will try to get some pics so you can see what I am talking about.
I have Ringer's solution, now if I could get a vein and inject some of it, it might buy us some time.

 

[Skyeking]

Reti, I'm so sorry this little one has such terrible injuries. I know he is in good hands, and that you are keeping him as comfy as is possible.

 

[jenfer]

I have Ringer's solution, now if I could get a vein and inject some of it, it might buy us some time.

Why not do SQ?

Jennifer