Trampled sigh

1835 Views 15 Replies 8 Participants Last post by Skyeking, Apr 7, 2009

Deluhathol

Discussion Starter · Apr 6, 2009 (Edited)

So I had my first egg hatch from my Lahore and the baby was doing great and growing fast. Well that is until I put my new Lahore into the loft. The first thing the male (Ra) does after I relese them to run around outside of the box I assigned to them is try and steal that box. He pushed both the parents out and in the process trampled the new baby to death

. Well now he and his girl (Isis) kicked my Damacenes out of their box because he decided he liked that one better and the Damacenes moved into their box. I had them in their assigned box for 3 days to try and help them see that it was theirs. Oh well hopefully the next eggs will hatch as well.

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karijo

· #2 · Apr 6, 2009

Oh no!! I'm so sorry!! This is why I have had to keep everyone locked in their boxes while there are babies. Friedman (my little buda) is such a bully (and Brooklyn too). They can't be trusted. Brook is just too rough though he won't go in anyone else's box, and Friedman can't mind his own business and stampedes inside the other boxes...

Do you have a way to lock the pairs in their boxes, only letting them out for individual playtimes or supervised playtime?

That's what I've been doing all month. It's more work and I can't travel right now, but it's worth it to keep everyone safe.

spirit wings

· #3 · Apr 6, 2009

karijo said:
Oh no!! I'm so sorry!! This is why I have had to keep everyone locked in their boxes while there are babies. Friedman (my little buda) is such a bully (and Brooklyn too). They can't be trusted. Brook is just too rough though he won't go in anyone else's box, and Friedman can't mind his own business and stampedes inside the other boxes...

Do you have a way to lock the pairs in their boxes, only letting them out for individual playtimes or supervised playtime?

That's what I've been doing all month. It's more work and I can't travel right now, but it's worth it to keep everyone safe.

that is what I was thinking, needs some nest fronts,

Skyeking

· #4 · Apr 6, 2009 (Edited)

I'm so sorry to hear about the baby, I think not only nest fronts are needed, but new birds especially single males (who are not in breeding mode, but only are in gaining territory mode) should NEVER be introduced to the breeders loft, during breeding season when young are vulnerable.

Deluhathol

Discussion Starter · #5 · Apr 6, 2009

Yes I do have nest fronts which was how I had them in the box I was trying to assign them. The 2 new Lahore were already paired off before I put them into the loft, and I saw mating yesterday so hopefully I will get some eggs from them soon.

spirit wings

· #6 · Apr 6, 2009

Deluhathol said:
Yes I do have nest fronts which was how I had them in the box I was trying to assign them. The 2 new Lahore were already paired off before I put them into the loft, and I saw mating yesterday so hopefully I will get some eggs from them soon.

If you have fronts how did one get in where the sqaub was?

.....oi

Skyeking

· #7 · Apr 6, 2009

Deluhathol said:
Yes I do have nest fronts which was how I had them in the box I was trying to assign them. The 2 new Lahore were already paired off before I put them into the loft, and I saw mating yesterday so hopefully I will get some eggs from them soon.

It is best to NEVER introduce a new breeding pair to breeding pairs with youngens.

There are ssome very aggressive/bold males who will go in the nest regardless of nest fronts.

The point is, he was claiming territory to start his new family, didn't matter where-he is just claiming territory, and once he is on nest duties he will calm down. It's best to introduce all your breeders at the same time, don't bring another new pair in after everyone has settled and have babies.

wovenwoman

· #8 · Apr 6, 2009

Very sorry for your loss

. This is going to sound nutty, but I heard that putting letters on everyones box creates a lot less fighting. It seems that everyone gets to know their assigned letters, and basically sticks to those boxes. I think I may have seen that on Pigeonnews.tv/ with John Froelich back in 2007, but not sure. (poor memory sorry)

I wonder if that might help? Since I dont have a loft, I dont know if this even works, but I do know that pigeons are smart.

Edie

Deluhathol

Discussion Starter · #9 · Apr 6, 2009

Hopefully there will be less fighting once I build my large loft. Still in the process of trying to convince the misses to let me do it

. Should be about 5' deep x 16' long x 8' tall. 12' old bird section and 4' young bird section. I Hope that will be enough room for them to establish whatever they want.

Skyeking

· #10 · Apr 6, 2009

Deluhathol said:
Hopefully there will be less fighting once I build my large loft. Still in the process of trying to convince the misses to let me do it . Should be about 5' deep x 16' long x 8' tall. *12' old bird section and 4' young bird section. I Hope that will be enough room for them to establish whatever they want.

* What about a breeding section???

Deluhathol

Discussion Starter · #11 · Apr 6, 2009

The 12' old bird section is the breeding section. The young bird section will be mainly for babies that get kicked out of the nest until they mature and pair off and are able to be moved back in with the rest of the birds. I dont fly my birds due to i only have fancy pigeons. but of course they will have an aviary for sunning, bathing, and exercise.

risingstarfans

· #12 · Apr 6, 2009

Another Lesson In Pigeons 101

Pigeons are not people!

1. Assigning a nest, or a perch is impossible. The cannot read, and they attempt by instinct to get the most desirable (for them) location in the group.
2. Male pigeons have a pecking order, not based particularly on strength or size, but on aggressiveness. The closer to a hen's getting ready to lay eggs, the stronger the male's dominance over his mate, thus the driving and pecking at her. This isolattes her and ensures that all her eggs are truly his offspring.
3. Males select the area of the loft that belongs to the pair, but the hen selects where the actual nest will be, and where the eggs are laid.
4. To pigeons, in spite of their obvious parental care and nurturing, babies are an object that, if lost or missing, is quickly forgotten and a new nest is made.
5. Pigeons do not recognize their own babies, unless the size, or differences in color are involved, and the difference is great.
6. All behavior in pigeons, as in all other birds or animals, is instinctive and is beneficial to the survival of the species or the family.
7. All human-like attributes found in pigeons, as any animal species is only seen in the eyes of humans, and goes unrecognized by the animal itself.
8. Pigeons, as in all animals, have no concept of self, of birth, or death. When a pigeon seems to be grieving over the loss of a mate for instance, it is actually seeking that mate. If not found within a certain period of time, usually about five days, they will seek a new mate

Sorry to burst a few misconceptions many many on this forum have here, but these are my conclusions after nearly 60 years of studying behavioral patterns.

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LUCKYT

· #13 · Apr 6, 2009

I agree with Treesa, i never add to an Established loft unless i have no choice. Then the nest fronts would help. But you are still better off not introducing new birds to a breeding colony... Dave

LUCKYT

· #14 · Apr 6, 2009

Risingstarfans! you said it all. the best way to help any animal, is to UNDERSTAND it's true nature! Not put it into human context. Not Politically Correct, on this site, BUT it is the truth. Good for you! Dave

TAWhatley

· #15 · Apr 7, 2009

I think Risingstarfans did do a very good post here. I would disagree to a small extent on some points, but I do think he got it mostly right. I'll be interested in the comments here.

Terry

Skyeking

· #16 · Apr 7, 2009

My point....

risingstarfans said:
2. Male pigeons have a pecking order, not based particularly on strength or size, but on aggressiveness. The closer to a hen's getting ready to lay eggs, the stronger the male's dominance over his mate, thus the driving and pecking at her. This isolattes her and ensures that all her eggs are truly his offspring.

This is exactly why every couple/couple to be, should be introduced to the breeding section at the same time. They need to establish the pecking order and get all nest box issues settled, then they will be in harmony and every couple will be of the same mind, of settling and starting their families.

When you introduce a new breeding couple to an already established breeding colony of birds, it may bring chaos and even death to babies, if the new male is aggressive and wants the top box, if the male is not aggressive it may not be an issue, but IF you don't know the male birds' personality don't take chances.

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