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Moxie,

I'm so sorry to read about your little one legged bird. You didn't do anything wrong. As Renee pointed out, he could have died had you kept him home. You just don't know. There was no indication that he wouldn't survive the trip any worse than the other two who made it just fine. May he RIP, it was just his time. Your intervention extended his life and you saw that he had many happy pigeon days.

Margaret
 

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I am so sorry!!!! Please try not to feel responsible. I have never heard before of a bird dying from stress from shipping, so there's NO way you could have foretold that. Perhaps he had a weak heart, there's so much you just couldn't know that might have happened. When I had birds shipped, they took three days to get to me and were all fine even though they had more of a delay than they should have. At least his time with you was wonderful. I'm so sorry he didn't make it. It wasn't your fault. :eek:
 

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I'm sorry Raina. It's very hard to face the unknown and accept the un-expected but you have proven you are capable of both. Time will heal the hurt, be kind to yourself, you are not at fault.
 

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More Terrible News

Moxie's little hen was dead this morning when I went to do the morning chores. So far the racing pigeon seems to be OK. Both birds appeared to be fine when they arrived and both did drink and eat, and both had settled in nicely for the night when I checked on them around 10:30 PM last night. They were in a very large airline type carrier inside my finished garage and had plenty of food and water available. My garage hasn't seen a vehicle in it for a couple of decades .. the garage is my home office and bird hospital/nursery. Since the one bird was DOA and a second one has died, I have to believe that the birds somehow were exposed to fumes or some other toxic substance during their journey.

I am just gutted over these losses even though I know there is nothing that Moxie or I could have done to prevent them. Moxie, my heart is absolutely breaking for you.

Terry
 

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Moxie's little hen was dead this morning when I went to do the morning chores. So far the racing pigeon seems to be OK. Both birds appeared to be fine when they arrived and both did drink and eat, and both had settled in nicely for the night when I checked on them around 10:30 PM last night. They were in a very large airline type carrier inside my finished garage and had plenty of food and water available. My garage hasn't seen a vehicle in it for a couple of decades .. the garage is my home office and bird hospital/nursery. Since the one bird was DOA and a second one has died, I have to believe that the birds somehow were exposed to fumes or some other toxic substance during their journey.

I am just gutted over these losses even though I know there is nothing that Moxie or I could have done to prevent them. Moxie, my heart is absolutely breaking for you.

Terry
Well, dad blasted!!! What the heck????? Could it even remotely be possible that they didn't survive because they are ferals? That sounds kind of dumb I guess, but whatever happened to these two (if something happened) had to have happened to the racer too. Just kind of weird I think. This will be one of those "life's great mysteries".......I'm soooooo sorry they didn't make it. Have you guys shipped a lot of ferals? Puzzling..........
 

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Moxie's little hen was dead this morning when I went to do the morning chores. So far the racing pigeon seems to be OK. Both birds appeared to be fine when they arrived and both did drink and eat, and both had settled in nicely for the night when I checked on them around 10:30 PM last night. They were in a very large airline type carrier inside my finished garage and had plenty of food and water available. My garage hasn't seen a vehicle in it for a couple of decades .. the garage is my home office and bird hospital/nursery. Since the one bird was DOA and a second one has died, I have to believe that the birds somehow were exposed to fumes or some other toxic substance during their journey.

I am just gutted over these losses even though I know there is nothing that Moxie or I could have done to prevent them. Moxie, my heart is absolutely breaking for you.

Terry
Mine too....
 

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Well, I will say that I have been a little worried for both of mine because they've been breathing funny. That is, I can hear them breathing and, of course, they both breathe through their mouths under the circumstances.

And, they shake a little bit. I've already started some labs like I did a throat swab and I've been trying to get enough poop out of them to run fecals. I noticed this morning that they've gone through quite a bit of water and what little poop they've produced thus far makes a person think of PMV.

There are no neurological signs yet but I've been more than a little nervous about that. I have been wondering if this had to do with that other bird going down so fast (the one that she had that died despite all efforts lately).

The one-legged one appears to have died after some state of depression. I say that because he appears to have settled down and then just gone to sleep. If Terry hadn't said that he was dead in those pictures, I'd never have been able to tell it.

Pidgey
 

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Well, I will say that I have been a little worried for both of mine because they've been breathing funny. That is, I can hear them breathing and, of course, they both breathe through their mouths under the circumstances.

And, they shake a little bit. I've already started some labs like I did a throat swab and I've been trying to get enough poop out of them to run fecals. I noticed this morning that they've gone through quite a bit of water and what little poop they've produced thus far makes a person think of PMV.

There are no neurological signs yet but I've been more than a little nervous about that. I have been wondering if this had to do with that other bird going down so fast (the one that she had that died despite all efforts lately).

The one-legged one appears to have died after some state of depression. I say that because he appears to have settled down and then just gone to sleep. If Terry hadn't said that he was dead in those pictures, I'd never have been able to tell it.

Pidgey
That may be possible and may be that the racer was vaccinated regularly and that's why he/she is doing fine.
 

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Raina and Terry, I am just sick reading this. I simply don't know the right words to say to express my sorrow, particularly for Raina. My dear, you work tirelessly caring for your little ones and I want you to look back with pride that you pulled these pigeons through when they were so ill. None of us will ever know what happened en route to Terry but you have no reason to fault anything you did. I am just so, so sorry.
 

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Discussion Starter #72 (Edited)
OMG! I just cannot believe this, i was crying all day yesterday, and just when i thought i felt a bit better, get off work to read this!
I am horribly, extremely devastated, i feel worse then when my cat died because now other people, Pidgey and Terry, are involved!
Ok, when i had the PMV bird in the same room, i got really scared anf moved him to another room once it was determined he had PMV, let me go check how long he's been out of that room, hold on, i wanted to make sure NONE of the birds had PMV, even the ones i was releasing. Pidgey remembers, i discussed it with him, hold on one sec....
 

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Discussion Starter #73 (Edited)
ok, i moved him out of that room at the end of february. I had him caged, and everyone else was caged, but once we suspected PMV i moved him into other room. I had some ferals i was supposed to release that weekend, well, i was scared that PMV could of gotten airborne somehow, so i JUST released them on easter, NONE showed signs of PMV. Hmm, i can find out if the racer was ever vaccinated, long story, but i found out who the owner that abandoned him is.
Anyways, originally the PMV, was in a cage next to another cage, and i thought the other one had gotten PMV too, he seemed to have slight symptoms for one night, but alas, didnt, i think i was being paranoid.
Anyways, when PMV was in the same room, i never touched him and touched the others, i always am careful about that.
OMG! I am so devastated, i am not doing this again, i feel like it's my fault, like i killed them somehow, i just dont think i can ever do this again, ever, i'm sorry, but this is just too much.... i cant handle this, i feel like one of those plastic surgery doctors that got their lisence through the mail, and is practicing surgery on people, killing them in the process. Or seeing severe side effects and not noticing it because they are UNQUALIFIED!
I'm sorry Pidgey and Terry, i thought i was sending healthy birds, except for Pidgey's being a bit underweight, as i just started them on zupreem pellets 2 weeks earlier, the Kaytee alone wasnt doing it for them.... They all seemed healthy besides that. Pidgey, they would both, i dont know if i would call it shake, but their wings would flutter when i got in the cage to tube feed or anything else. But when i was further away they wouldnt do this. I think the hen died of a broken heart. I know Terry that you are just saying they might have gotten exposed to fumes to make me feel better, i appreciate it, but nothing is gonna make me feel better right now. I mean, if it was fumes, why is the racer ok, that doesnt make sense?
Pidgey, when you say shaking and breathing loudly, what do you mean? i am just WAY TOO inexerienced to be doing this, i hate to say it, but i feel like i have done more damage then good for any of these birds, i know they all would of died out there, but, i dont know, i just feel like i SHOULD of spotted something before shipping! Like, SOMETHING! I like hate myself right now, i feel so crappy... I dont know why i ever thought i could help...
 

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Well, calm down. Every rehabber gets hit from time to time with things like this. Remember when Phil's birds started dying back a few months ago? Terry's had an episode or two, too. It's the nature of the business. When you bring in sick birds, that's exactly what you have: a sick bird. Eventually, you get one that's got something bad enough to cause a real problem. And your area has obviously had some of the worst of the worst problems that we've seen.

As to my two, if you can remember being able to hear them both breathe little hisses from time to time then we're probably okay. Let's face the facts, they've both got a little wrong with their beaks, you know.

Pidgey
 

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Moxie, don't give up. Please remember that you pulled these pigeons through and they were healthy when you shipped them. You had them for several months and they lived - all because of you. The odds simply would not add up that two would die within a day of each other after you having them as long as you did. You did absolutely nothing to cause this. It is simply that something happened en route. I know you're hurting and all of us are too because of you, because we care for you.
 

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I have shipped dozens of ferals to California, Arizona, Virginia, never had an incident. So, it's not that they were ferals, less resistant, whatever.
Moxxie, don't even think for one second that you did anything wrong. The fumes/toxins theory would make sense and that the racer didn't die might be just, maybe he is more resistant, better immune system, larger size etc. Who knows where they were kept until put on the plane, maybe next to some chemicals? The PO workers wouldn't know. It is very unlikely all pijies contracted PMV and none showed symptoms.
I am so sorry you guys have to go through this.

Reti
 

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Raina, I know that you feel horrible right now.........I wish, heck, I'm sure we ALL wish we could be there to give a big hug. Don't you EVER stop doing what you do. There's SO MANY that would have had a horrible end to their life had it not been for you. These two birds that just died would have had a horrible end to THEIR life had you not taken them in. As it is, they passed away warm and safe. I know that this is probably no consolation to you at this moment, but in a few days...............there was something going on that you nor anyone else could have seen. PLEASE don't beat yourself up. You do to much good.
 

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Discussion Starter #78
Terry, please bury the hen and one legged with peanuts, they loved peanuts, too much, and i know they would of liked that...
Thanks...
 

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My two look just fine right now. I put them under a heat lamp when they got in and they seem to like it. I can't hear any funny sounds out of them now.

Pidgey
 

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Raina, my beloved daughter in spirit, listen now as you've never listened before: Life is risk, and nothing in life is as risky as loving. Many of us here at Pigeon-Talk love you a lot because you haven't got a selfish bone in your body. You regularly burst through the Gates of Hell to rescue a dying pigeon with no thought for what it may ultimately cost you. More than any of the rest of us, you are innocent. Many of us have long since lost this and wish more than anything else that we could get it back. So many choices that we have made that we can never go back and unmake.

These birds that you have taken in had no champion other than you. Of all the other folks who walked by without a glance, only you loved them enough to give them a chance. And that's what it was: a chance. Between you, all of us and the considerable resources that we as a community are and have, we are not omnipotent and we cannot save them all. We cannot and do not always know even what's wrong with them. All we can do is try and do our best. It will never be enough, but it's all that we have. And you, my child, have certainly given to the utmost of your abilities and your love to these birds.

The greatest risk in loving is how it exposes us to pain, as you are feeling now. Pain often causes us to love less because we don't want to feel it again and that ironically does us the most harm of all. Every little bit that we learn to love less, we die a little bit more inside. Mourn, Raina, but remain who you are--there is no greater risk to you than that which comes with hardening your heart.

Pidgey
 
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