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Discussion Starter #1
I have two cock birds paired up and I'd like to break up the pairing. I have 12 racers that I have just recently put into our new loft. I'm not 100% sure which of the other birds are hens. I do have breeder boxes 24X16X16 so I could separate the cocks and put them with what I believe to be hens. How long do you think I would have to keep them separated and locked up for the cocks to pair up with the hens? What are the chances of the two cocks pairing back up after they are let out of the breeder boxes? Approximately how long would these pairs need to be locked up before they should lay eggs?
 

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Just place them with the females they will figure it out.
 

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Lol plus pigeons love to cheat
 

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If you want to use them for breeding then you should have hens picked out to pair them with.. they would have to be seperated of course and introduced to the hen you pick, by puting them in sight of the hens with a partitian between them to get them used to each other, alone and in one area.. when they act interested put them together, but watch to make sure the hen is not being bullied in a confined space like that... or you could put the two hens you picked with the two males without any other birds in the breeding area and see what happens over time.
 

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I`ll tell you what I did with 2 cocks that mated up !!! There both gone !!....Lets just say that a GOOD dominant cock does not want another cock in his nest box..Get rid of them..It`s a very bad trait.....Alamo
I don't understand. Why would you get rid of them just because they're not "good" dominant cocks? Did they perform well? If they did, it seems like a real waste. A bad trait? I've heard of many times where two cocks or two hens paired up. You separate them, put them with the bird you want them to mate with, and let nature take its course.
 

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I don't understand. Why would you get rid of them just because they're not "good" dominant cocks? Did they perform well? If they did, it seems like a real waste. A bad trait? I've heard of many times where two cocks or two hens paired up. You separate them, put them with the bird you want them to mate with, and let nature take its course.
Because a good cock wouldn't let another cock in his nestbox. Personally, I would just separate them, but I see what he means
 

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Good at what? Flying?
I don't think he is talking about good at flying, rather the natural trait of the bird. A dominant "cockly" behaving cock won't allow another cock bird in the nest box. To a good average, those defending dominant cock birds turn out to be good parent also.

I think its that view point he is mentioning

Jeff Ward - You have to separate both the males if they do not show interest in the hens even after introductions.

Separate one of the cock bird and the other should pick up on a hen from the rest. Just one question, when these two cocks were introduced to each other in your loft, were they the only birds at that time ?
 

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personally I like the more docile cock birds... you do not have to worry about them as much as in hurting/scalping/killing someone elses squabs... now THAT is a trait I do not like.. that cock would be gone.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Thanks for all the input. Sreesh, the two birds were "mated" when I got them. They are 06 birds, and the largest of the 12 I have. I'd like to keep them if at all possible for breeding, but if I can't get them paired up with hens they are not really what I'm looking for. I'd like to get some YBs out of them and then pass them on to new fanciers for breeding. Maybe I'll just have to pass one along, time will tell I guess. I do like your idea of only having to separate one cock from the other, that makes sense. Out of the 12 there are only 3 birds that I'm positive are cocks so there should be lots of hens to pick from. Their are at least 6 birds over a year old that appear to be hens, and a few YB's.
 

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personally I like the more docile cock birds... you do not have to worry about them as much as in hurting/scalping/killing someone elses squabs... now THAT is a trait I do not like.. that cock would be gone.


I agree with spirit wings. I have two cocks who are together also, and they share a nest box. But I do see them chasing females. I'm sure that if I separate them and introduce them to a female that they can have, they would mate up with her. I think if you can mate them up with females, they will stay with them when returned. I really don't think they would go back to each other. Try it and please let us know how it goes.
 

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I don't think he is talking about good at flying, rather the natural trait of the bird. A dominant "cockly" behaving cock won't allow another cock bird in the nest box. To a good average, those defending dominant cock birds turn out to be good parent also.
Although a dominant cock bird is usually a good parent (or so I'm told), there is no evidence that a less dominant cock will NOT be a good parent.

As far as the "natural trait" of the bird, it seems to me as if what happened (two cocks pairing up) is the natural trait of these birds. Maybe it isn't the trait that you desire, but it appears to have happened with no intervention from humans...thereby the natural trait of the birds.
 

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1 Are you sure both are cock birds. I have had a time or 2 a hen that looked more like a cock. Second most any time a hen or cock takes to each other they will go right to pairing with a mate once they are put together. So If both are cocks just seperate and add a heen Should pair right up.
 

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Although a dominant cock bird is usually a good parent (or so I'm told), there is no evidence that a less dominant cock will NOT be a good parent.

As far as the "natural trait" of the bird, it seems to me as if what happened (two cocks pairing up) is the natural trait of these birds. Maybe it isn't the trait that you desire, but it appears to have happened with no intervention from humans...thereby the natural trait of the birds.
I have my doubts on the facts whether a male/male or female/female pairing happen in the feral pigeons. The natural trait in animals and birds when it comes to pairing up leads only to one result, producing babies :) anything else, I would doubt its natural. Captive environments might be bringing in changes, can't think anything else on that subject more on my side.

When referring to the dominant cock, I didn't intend on the attacking aggressive type, but the one who maintains and defends its breeding space from the same sex. If someone is keeping birds with the intention of breeding, thats something which is a good stamp.
 

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I have my doubts on the facts whether a male/male or female/female pairing happen in the feral pigeons. The natural trait in animals and birds when it comes to pairing up leads only to one result, producing babies :) anything else, I would doubt its natural. Captive environments might be bringing in changes, can't think anything else on that subject more on my side.
I'm not sure I agree with you on this point. Look it up on the web and see what you get:

Homosexual behavior in animals refers to the documented evidence of homosexual, bisexual and trans-gender behavior in animals. Such behaviors include sex, courtship, affection, pair bonding, and parenting. A 1999 review by researcher Bruce Bagemihl shows that homosexual behavior has been observed in close to 1,500 species, ranging from primates to gut worms, and is well documented for 500 of them. Animal sexual behavior takes many different forms, even within the same species. The motivations for and implications of these behaviors have yet to be fully understood, since most species have yet to be fully studied. According to Bagemihl, "the animal kingdom [does] it with much greater sexual diversity — including homosexual, bisexual and non-reproductive sex — than the scientific community and society at large have previously been willing to accept." Current research indicates that various forms of same-sex sexual behavior are found throughout the animal kingdom. A new review in 2009 of existing research showed that same-sex behavior is a nearly universal phenomenon in the animal kingdom, common across species. Homosexuality is best known from social species.

"No species has been found in which homosexual behavior has not been shown to exist, with the exception of species that never have sex at all, such as sea urchins and aphis. Moreover, a part of the animal kingdom is hermaphroditic, truly bisexual. For them, homosexuality is not an issue." -Peter Bockman, Scientific adviser to Against Nature? exhibit.

A few more tidbits specifically about birds:

-Studies have shown that 10 to 15 percent of female western gulls in some populations in the wild exhibit homosexual behavior.

-Mallards form male-female pairs only until the female lays eggs, at which time the male leaves the female. Mallards have rates of male-male sexual activity that are unusually high for birds, in some cases, as high as 19% of all pairs in a population

-An estimated one-quarter of all black swans pairings are homosexual and they steal nests, or form temporary threesomes with females to obtain eggs, driving away the female after she lays the eggs. More of their cygnets survive to adulthood than those of different-sex pairs, possibly due to their superior ability to defend large portions of land. The same reasoning has been applied to male flamingo pairs raising chicks.

-In 1998 two male Griffon vultures named Dashik and Yehuda, at the Jerusalem Biblical Zoo, engaged in "open and energetic sex" and built a nest. The keepers provided the couple with an artificial egg, which the two parents took turns incubating; and 45 days later, the zoo replaced the egg with a baby vulture. The two male vultures raised the chick together. A few years later, however, Yehuda became interested in a female vulture that was brought into the aviary. Dashik was eventually moved to the zoological research garden at Tel Aviv University where he too set up a nest with a female vulture.

And of course, our favorites:

-Both male and female pigeons sometimes exhibit homosexual behavior. As well as sexual behavior, same-sex pigeon pairs will build nests, and lesbian hens will lay (infertile) eggs and attempt to incubate them. Some pigeons also display "fetish" behavior and attempt to mate with specific inanimate objects.

That last example resonates for me. I currently have two Flight hens that set up nest together and are incubating eggs. Of course, I swapped out the infertile eggs with some good roller eggs!
 

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Dominant cocks FIGHT for their nest box & hen bird mate !!! Not other cock birds !!!
Another bad trait is birds that GRUNT at you when you enter the loft...Get rid of them also....If you don`t understand about grunting,here is the answer....When a pigeon GRUNTS,he/she is warning the other birds of DANGER...If your birds think you are DANGER,when you enter your loft,you need another hobby !!!....Alamo
 

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I'm not sure I agree with you on this point. Look it up on the web and see what you get:

Homosexual behavior in animals refers to the documented evidence of homosexual, bisexual and trans-gender behavior in animals. Such behaviors include sex, courtship, affection, pair bonding, and parenting. A 1999 review by researcher Bruce Bagemihl shows that homosexual behavior has been observed in close to 1,500 species, ranging from primates to gut worms, and is well documented for 500 of them. Animal sexual behavior takes many different forms, even within the same species. The motivations for and implications of these behaviors have yet to be fully understood, since most species have yet to be fully studied. According to Bagemihl, "the animal kingdom [does] it with much greater sexual diversity — including homosexual, bisexual and non-reproductive sex — than the scientific community and society at large have previously been willing to accept." Current research indicates that various forms of same-sex sexual behavior are found throughout the animal kingdom. A new review in 2009 of existing research showed that same-sex behavior is a nearly universal phenomenon in the animal kingdom, common across species. Homosexuality is best known from social species.

"No species has been found in which homosexual behavior has not been shown to exist, with the exception of species that never have sex at all, such as sea urchins and aphis. Moreover, a part of the animal kingdom is hermaphroditic, truly bisexual. For them, homosexuality is not an issue." -Peter Bockman, Scientific adviser to Against Nature? exhibit.

A few more tidbits specifically about birds:

-Studies have shown that 10 to 15 percent of female western gulls in some populations in the wild exhibit homosexual behavior.

-Mallards form male-female pairs only until the female lays eggs, at which time the male leaves the female. Mallards have rates of male-male sexual activity that are unusually high for birds, in some cases, as high as 19% of all pairs in a population

-An estimated one-quarter of all black swans pairings are homosexual and they steal nests, or form temporary threesomes with females to obtain eggs, driving away the female after she lays the eggs. More of their cygnets survive to adulthood than those of different-sex pairs, possibly due to their superior ability to defend large portions of land. The same reasoning has been applied to male flamingo pairs raising chicks.

-In 1998 two male Griffon vultures named Dashik and Yehuda, at the Jerusalem Biblical Zoo, engaged in "open and energetic sex" and built a nest. The keepers provided the couple with an artificial egg, which the two parents took turns incubating; and 45 days later, the zoo replaced the egg with a baby vulture. The two male vultures raised the chick together. A few years later, however, Yehuda became interested in a female vulture that was brought into the aviary. Dashik was eventually moved to the zoological research garden at Tel Aviv University where he too set up a nest with a female vulture.

And of course, our favorites:

-Both male and female pigeons sometimes exhibit homosexual behavior. As well as sexual behavior same-sex pigeon pairs will build nests, and lesbian hens will lay (infertile) eggs and attempt to incubate them. Some pigeons also display "fetish" behavior and attempt to mate with specific inanimate objects.
Thanks for that :)
 
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