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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Good morning everyone. I'd like to post a few pictures of Beau for your opinions and for update. I have been hand feeding him (?) for the past month along with Baytril, Sulfa and Calcium that Vet provided. I know he has Pox but now I'm questioning whether the yellow I'm seeing could be Canker to boot. His lower beak is now almost completely involved including under it. And you can see the lumps on side and top of head. Small one on right eye developed and already resolved itself. Does this still look like normal pox or some other type of growths?? Any input is much appreciated.. Other than looking horrible he is active, affectionate and is enjoying evening free flying around the house.

Gina
p.s. pay no attention to dates on photos
 

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Hi Gina,

Have you taken him/her to an avian vet or rehabber?

I would definitely suspect canker and get him on Spartrix and/or metrodonizole asap.
 

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Guardian Angel
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Hi Gina,

Bless you for caring for this bird. Trichomonas and Pigeon Pox virus frequently come together and while Baytril and sulpha meds will cover a range of conditions they won't touch Trichomonas. Can you get some Metronidazole from your veterinarian? Your bird will tolerate it better than Spartrix, which can cause nausea and needs to be given on an empty stomach. You can give a single dose of Metronidazole daily, but Metronidazole can also be given twice daily which aside from the actual administration issue, may be beneficial in this situation. You may want to drizzle a small amount of the medicine directly onto the lower beak in addition to the actual dosage. Also, a higher than normal level of protein is helpful for pox birds while fighting off and repairing from the virus.

fp
 

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He definitely needs Metronidazole. Can you get some from a vet ? if not, you are still in luck, as it is one of the meds available over-counter....Flagyl, Fishzole are some other names (you can often get it a pet stores or fish/aquarium stores ~ just be sure the product has no other additives, as many brands of the fish Metronidazole often do).

You need to get him on it ASAP. A bird that small with canker like that isn't gonna hang in there too long.....how's his weight ? It's kinda amazing that you can successfully handfeed him in this condition, IMHO.....are you tubing ???

http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/ had both Fishzole and Flagyl.....

....if you can't find locally TODAY, order it NOW and get it express mailed.

Or...probably quicker if you can't find a shop locally...I have a single 100mg Metronidazole tablet left here....I'd be happy to express-mail to you; you will then need to dilute properly...just PM or e-mail me.

BTW...thanks for helping the guy ;)

 

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Guardian Angel
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Gina is apparently working w/a vet, hopefully the vet will be willing to give her
a script so the bird can get on the antibiotic today.

fp
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I will look for the Metronidazole today at pet/fish store. Didn't know I could get it there. I actually feed him with a baggie. After mixing the Kaytee I twist the corner of a baggie into a pouch shape and snip off enough for him to fit his beak in. He does all the work, I just hold the bag and clean up the drippy mess :p The vet that treated him initially didn't impress me much. I inquired about vaccinations to keep him healthy after he recovers from pox, etc. and they told me that birds don't get vaccinations. I know from reading this site for the past few years that they DO. So my faith in their office has dropped. If I cannot find Flagyl today I will give them another try.

Gina
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Hi Gina,

Bless you for caring for this bird. Trichomonas and Pigeon Pox virus frequently come together and while Baytril and sulpha meds will cover a range of conditions they won't touch Trichomonas. Can you get some Metronidazole from your veterinarian? Your bird will tolerate it better than Spartrix, which can cause nausea and needs to be given on an empty stomach. You can give a single dose of Metronidazole daily, but Metronidazole can also be given twice daily which aside from the actual administration issue, may be beneficial in this situation. You may want to drizzle a small amount of the medicine directly onto the lower beak in addition to the actual dosage. Also, a higher than normal level of protein is helpful for pox birds while fighting off and repairing from the virus.

fp
What can I give him to boost his protein levels? I hand feed him Kaytee since he isn't able to feed himself. Is they something they can be added to that?

I also have some Harrison's High Potency Mash that I bought at the vet's office but Beau didn't seem to like it. I was mixing a small amount of it into the Kaytee but it is gritty and it seemed to put him off.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Hi Gina,

Have you taken him/her to an avian vet or rehabber?

I would definitely suspect canker and get him on Spartrix and/or metrodonizole asap.

He was initially seen about 3 weeks ago but a Vet. I haven't had any luck finding a rehabber willing to return a call.

I will look for meds at pet store today and am waiting for another rehabber to return my call as I type this.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thank you all for the advice and offers of help. Taking care of Beau is a pleasure. He may be a goofy looking lil guy but he has a great personality. I can open his cage, go sit down and call to him and he will fly right to me. When I tap on his feeding tray he comes and waits. He sits on my shoulder and chirps in my ear and will even peck on my lips to beg for food and affection. He shows no hand fear and will sit on my shoulder as I walk around the house. I've never had these types of reactions from animals that were supposedly trained, let alone from one that is suppose to be wild.
 

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Guardian Angel
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Kaytee Exact is fine. You might want to hard boil an egg and add a quarter of
the yolk into the formula as well, not only nutritious but will help to keep up the
bird's weight.

Have you weighed the dove and is the dove holding it's weight well?

fp
 

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Guardian Angel
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BTW, do you have a Feed and Grain store nearby? They frequently will sell
medicines and it's possible you may be able to get Metronidazole through
them.

fp
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
I have run around to all the pet/fish/bird stores in my area that i can think of and have completely struck out. I can find penicillin, ampicillin, tetracycline, cephalexin but no Flagyl. My last chance is my nephew. He is a pharmacist but won't be at work again until tomorrow. I've talked to 3 vet offices today and none of them will see him. Had one rehabber that finally called me back but she has given up her license and said she never treated any bird diseases. I will post more later tonight but I have to feed my human children now......fun fun fun.

Gina

p.s. How do I figure out the doseage of the medicine once I finally get it??
 

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Guardian Angel
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Have you ever weighed the bird? I still could ship the meds to you,
but it's getting late here as well. Three is the cutoff time, I believe.

Back w/dosing instructions....

fp


I have run around to all the pet/fish/bird stores in my area that i can think of and have completely struck out. I can find penicillin, ampicillin, tetracycline, cephalexin but no Flagyl. My last chance is my nephew. He is a pharmacist but won't be at work again until tomorrow. I've talked to 3 vet offices today and none of them will see him. Had one rehabber that finally called me back but she has given up her license and said she never treated any bird diseases. I will post more later tonight but I have to feed my human children now......fun fun fun.

Gina

p.s. How do I figure out the doseage of the medicine once I finally get it??
 

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Guardian Angel
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Do you have a 1cc syringe on hand?

fp
 

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Guardian Angel
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Dosage is 50mg's per kilogram. Crush 250mg's in 10 cc's of water (you could go half and half here, that is 5 cc's of water and 5 cc's of Karo Syrup or Honey) and shake it up well. Use a small container or the mix will get 'lost'.

You did say morning dove so, if 100 grams, draw up 0.2 cc's of diluted medicine and syringe it into the dove. If the bird weighs 150 mg's, then draw up 0.3 cc's. and so on....
See if you can work the syringe in on one side and get in back towards the throat, then very slowly, release the medicine. Whatever dosage level you decide on based on the dove's weight, would be given twice daily, a.m. and p.m. I don't think you will be able to syringe the usual way w/this bird's condition.

You can drizzle a small amount directly onto the area around the beak as a topical treatment for the first few days.

Please let me know if you need the medicine and syringes and I'll see if I can't get it to you by Mon or Tues. at the latest.

fp
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I'm completely frustrated with people my area. I'm not sure if there are other Southern Michigan people on this forum that keep pigeons or assist orphaned/injured animals but trying to find Vets, rehabbers and medications for these animals is ridiculous. No one wants to help these animals. They've given me the impression that if its not a "conventional pet" then it doesn't need human/medical assistance. Again today I talked to a woman who is supposedly experienced in wild birds and she said vaccinations/ preventitive medications are not needed. No one seems to have heard of pox, canker, worms, etc. GRRRRRRRRRRR!

OK I've vented.

Here is my status. I will have Flagyl by tomorrow thanks to my nephew :) I do have 1cc syringes. Beau now weighs 3.9 oz (nephew can convert to grams) I also have Karo syrup and/or honey for diluting. I will begin adding egg yolk to meals for additional protein. I understand doseage instructions. How many days should he get the Flagyl? Another Pox question too. I know pox takes a few weeks to resolve. I've read approx 8 weeks. Is that accurate? Will he continue to get lesions the entire time?

Gina
 

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Guardian Angel
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I'm completely frustrated with people my area. I'm not sure if there are other Southern Michigan people on this forum that keep pigeons or assist orphaned/injured animals but trying to find Vets, rehabbers and medications for these animals is ridiculous. No one wants to help these animals. They've given me the impression that if its not a "conventional pet" then it doesn't need human/medical assistance. Again today I talked to a woman who is supposedly experienced in wild birds and she said vaccinations/ preventitive medications are not needed. No one seems to have heard of pox, canker, worms, etc. GRRRRRRRRRRR!

OK I've vented.

Here is my status. I will have Flagyl by tomorrow thanks to my nephew :) I do have 1cc syringes. Beau now weighs 3.9 oz (nephew can convert to grams) I also have Karo syrup and/or honey for diluting. I will begin adding egg yolk to meals for additional protein. I understand doseage instructions. How many days should he get the Flagyl? Another Pox question too. I know pox takes a few weeks to resolve. I've read approx 8 weeks. Is that accurate? Will he continue to get lesions the entire time?

Gina
That's great news that you will have the medicine tomorrow, Gina, many thanks to your nephew. The general rule of thumb is 5-7 days, I'd probably
go for the seven days in your dove's case. There are therapeutic regimines
w/Metronidazole which last for weeks, so I don't believe you are crossing a dangerous threshold treating for 7 days.

I think 8 weeks is the outside time frame, 6 weeks would be more average. You'll notice less virulent symptoms/activity w/a general cessation of symptoms.

Since you have both, I would use honey as it is more nutritious. Only submerge the tip when drawing up, it can get pretty messy otherwise.

I'm sorry for all the frustration that you have had trying to get health care
for this dove. We do have some resources which yield local leads, something
to work on later. I'm just glad this dove found his/her way to you for care,
otherwise things would have been pretty grim.

fp
 

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3.9 oz = ~ 110 grams

Avian Pox has two forms, (cutaneous) charactrized by externally growing pimple-like lesions (especially on nonfeathered areas of the bird, eyes, vent..), and the other form is (diphtheritic) charactrized by internally yellowish lesions (especially on mouth, trachea.. etc). Birds can have both or one of the two forms and it takes from 4 to 8 weeks to resolve and that depends on the virulence of the virus.. when the infection reachs its peak it stops producing lesions.​
 

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Guardian Angel
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3.9 oz = ~ 110 grams

Avian Pox has two forms, (cutaneous) charactrized by externally growing pimple-like lesions (especially on nonfeathered areas of the bird, eyes, vent..), and the other form is (diphtheritic) charactrized by internally yellowish lesions (especially on mouth, trachea.. etc). Birds can have both or one of the two forms and it takes from 4 to 8 weeks to resolve and that depends on the virulence of the virus.. when the infection reachs its peak it stops producing lesions.​
There is also a third noted form of pigeon pox virus, known as septicemic or acute which involves organ(s).

A quote from Clinical Avian Medicine:

"A yellow coating of
the mucosa can be seen with trichomoniasis, candidiasis,
the diphtheric form of avian pox or vitamin A deficiency
or excess."

I don't know the history of this bird, but if extended antibiotic treatment has
occurred, it may be wise to have the dove on antifungal meds. Being a wild bird, it's more likely that if there is a problem w/Vitamin A it would lean towards deficiency as opposed to excess.

fp
 
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