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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi,

I've just got back from America today and I'm afraid badly jet lagged so my brain's a few hours back!
I can't believe that I already have a new patient though. As soon as I got home I went to see how my birds were and then filled the wild bird feeders before going to catch some sleep.
When I got up this afternoon I happened to notice a very sick juvenile Woodie sitting outside the back door by a feeder.
I could tell it was really bad and although it could fly a bit I was lucky enough to catch it and bring it in.

It has advanced canker but unfortunately I don't have any Spartrix and it maybe Tuesday before I can get some.

I did go into a pet shop while I was across the pond to see if I could get my hands on some FishZole as I have no way of obtaining canker meds here other then Spartrix and I thought it might be an opportunity to bring some home. Unfortunately the store didn't have any but I did buy some fish fungal treatment whch is still in my case but I think it's just something that is dissolved in the fish water so I would assume not suitable to administer to a bird.

Are there any treatments I can give him until I get Spartrix as it's pretty bad?

Thanks

Janet
 

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Hi Janet

Cannot think of anything but one of the ....zole medications, as it does require an antiprotozoal.

Guess if you order Spartrix from Boddy & Ridewood 1st thing tomorrow they may be able to deliver guaranteed next day?

Or a vet could provide metronidazole

John
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hi John,

A bit of luck, just rummaged through my meds and found one Spartix tablet so have tried to get some of that down. His throat very badly blocked so just gave half as it seemd to make him froth.
Poor soul's beak is also scissoring and the bottom half feels unstable, I'm hoping it's just as it's soft due to him being young.

Janet
 

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Hello Janet, Spartrix will help but it is no good on its own for advanced Canker. However with Metronidazole given for at least fourteen days there is a good chance of recovery. You need to go to the vet and ask for Flagyl syrup 200mg/5ml (each 5ml contains the equivalent of 200mg metronidazole) The usual dose is 0.25 twice a day up to 14 days for this medicine but weight of bird need to be taken into consideration (This information from Dr Colin Walker's book.) For an average sized woodie this is the dose prescribed by my vet.I also give Spartrix with Flagyl for several days as they both help.The vet may prescribe an antibiotic if there is a secondary infection. I would ask for a bottle of Flagyl as it is a lifesaver for birds with canker. You need to shake the bottle before use everytime.Use 1ml syringe to administer.
Best wishes Jayne
 

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Hello Janet, Ive got some Spartrix which will go by NOON on monday (first post) and hopefully will arrive Tuesday morning. If the pigeon cannot take the tablet whole, crush it and add little water and give through a !ml Syringe. I would give one tablet morning and at night 12 hours apart for the first few days but Metronidazole is more affective.I would order some from Boddy and Ridewood because Canker is very bad at moment especially with Collared Doves which I know you have rescued just recently.Let me know if they arrive in time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Hi Jayne,

Thanks for that. I can get some Spartrix from the pigeon suppliers but can't drive over there until Tuesday, just tried to get you by phone to let you know but you may already have posted. I'll replace yours when I get some more otherwise.

Janet
 

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hello Janet, you need FLAGYL from the vet as I doubt whether the pigeon will survive if the canker is advanced. As I have said Spartrix on its own (if the canker is in advanced state) is no good.It would be best alsoto give Bayrtil as a precaution as there is probably secondary infection.The dose I give 0.2 once a day.


I am sending you FLAGYL by post.Also some syringes
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Jayne, thank you so much.

I just phoned the vets to ask about getting Flagyl but as always the receptionist says they want to see the Woodie first but as it's quite bad I'm not happy about leaving it with them to decide.

I'll let you know how it goes. I have a feeling there's a sibling around too as when I first saw it yesterday on the ground there was also an adult with another fluffed up one on the roof which flew off.

Have set up a trap just in case.

Janet
 

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They might want to PTS if they are not an avian vet. Pigeons can survive bad canker but usually takes a long time and medication for at least 14 days.I have an excellent avian vet and have been successful as a result with bad canker. I would give the pigeon a chance if you can tube feed the pigeon if it cannot take seed r. If you cant get liquid in to the pigeon then there is a problem and vet may PTS.Good luck Janet with this one.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Jayne,

Thanks so much, the meds arrived lunchtime and I've just managed to get over to buy some more Spartrix. :)

Woodie is still very blocked and has a lot of sticky discharge in his throat.
His mouth is wide open all the time and seems to have got a bit swollen around the tongue overnight.
I did manage to tube him some Kaytee yesterday which at least changed the poops a little from starvation green. Unfortunately today the tube wouldn't go down so I've only been able to get a bit of fluid into him so far.

Let's hope the meds start to do some work now.

Janet
 

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hi amyable, i found a woodie that had very bad canker and its throat was clogged up with yellow deposits, it was very underweight due to not being able to eat and i was told by a very experienced pigeon fancier that the best thing to do is mix up a banana into a paste and use a 10ml syringe to pump small amounts down its throat until the syringe is empty,this worked a treat for me and the woodie made a full recovery after giving it a 1/4 of a 250mg flagyl tablet (metronadizole) every day for 7 days after i had fed it with the banana,if you can get some baby milk to sprinkle onto the banana than all the better but if not than just banana will be fine.this may sound strange but its easily digested by the bird when it is weak and its digestive system is not up to scratch,a crumbled up 1/2 brewers yeast tablet can also be used instead of the baby milk as its full of b vits and aids recovery, i hope this helps and good luck kevin
 

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Hello Janet, sounds like really bad canker. I would give 0.3 Metronidazole (FLagyl) twice a day, plus one Spartrix. You will need to do this for at least 14 days. You could give Bayrtil 0.2 later if you think there is a secondary infection.
Interesting what kev says about giving Banana and baby milk. Not sure if you can give Brewers Yeast whilst giving Baytril though.

You could use a cotton bud dipped in metronidazole to clean and remove the nodules but wouldnt do that straight away. When you see them coming loose you could gently remove them so you can get the kaytee down the throat. You have to be really careful otherwise the nodules will bleed badly. The pigeon will swallow them which is okay.

Hope the pigeon gets better. It will take a while as I said. Jayne
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Well that's very interesting about the banana. It's good to hear your bird made a good recovery Kevin. Hope it works for this one.

I'm so pleased I've got some Metronidazole now as it certainly needs to have some hard hitting meds to clear this one I think.
Can you give Baytril with this or should I leave that until the canker is cleared out?

I'm a bit worried it's lower beak is deformed and he's not going to be able to close his beak even once the cankers gone. That will make it hard for him to pick up seeds for himself possibly.
Still we've got to get him to that stage first so I'll see how it looks if these growths come away.

Thanks so much for the help so far.

Janet
 

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hi amyable,im glad youve got the metronidazole to treat the canker,hopefully the bird will make a full recovery. baytril is quite a strong med so i personally wouldnt use it at the same time as metronidazole but thats only my opinion? as jayne says you can always use it later if a secondary infection kicks in. i was told about the bananas by a very experienced pigeon fancier who explained that exhausted or sick pigeons can regurgitate pigeon corn and choke on it as the tic beans,maize etc can be too much for their weakened digestive system to deal with,if giving any solid food i would give small seeds such as wheat,barley,rice etc when the bird is up to eating on its own, multi vits powder are also a good idea to put in the water or on food if you have any and you cant get babies milk. good luck kevin:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Well some major improvement this afternoon.

Two really big growths came away which has cleared his throat well enough to tube feed so he's had a decent feed tonight of Kaytee.
I only had green bananas Kevin, so didn't use that as it would be too hard ! Have to wait until they ripen.

Very disappointed though to see his lower beak didn't close as a result which I'd hoped now the main protusion has come away.
He still has lot of bits remaining and the mouth looks very sore and red but he should breath more easily now.

With regard to your note Kevin about not being able to digest seeds yet, I do remember previous adult Woodie I had with severe canker last year sadly passed away and I'm afraid it might have choked on seeds then.
He'd been doing ok and the main blockage came away after a few days and he immediately went mad eating seeds as he was no doubt starving. I was gutted when I found him dead only a few minutes later. I checked down his throat to try and find out what had happened and he had a seed stuck in his windpipe. Whether this was the cause of death I don't know but I won't let this youngster start on self feeding for a good while yet just in case.

Janet
 

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Hi Janet, thanks for the update. Glad to hear there has been an improvement. You need to medicate with Metronidazole for fourteen days because there may be nodules where you cant see (internal canker) I would give Spartrix one a day for about 5 days also.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
Hi,

This youngster is doing quite well. I did nearly lose him in the first week when the first large canker pieces came away and he bled quite badly, but he pulled up.

He's still on Flagyl for another few days to take it up to fourteen in total.

He still has some new canker appearing on the lining of his mouth which I've been treating with topical application of Flagyl. It's a bit clearer today.
Also he still gets some mucous in his throat, I'm hoping this clear before the meds finish.

I haven't let him go back to self feeding seeds yet as I'm worried they might get stuck in his throat if he's still producing mucous so I tube feed him Kaytee four times a day.

The one thing I wanted to see if I could correct if at all possible is his deformed beak. It doesn't meet and I'm concerned this will deem him unreleasable if he has trouble picking up seeds.


As he's still a youngster the beak hasn't changed yet to the adult yellow so is still fairly flexible. When I have him out to feed, I sit and hold it gently in the correct position for around 10 minutes at a time and he tolerates this well.
He can obviously breath ok like this so I was wondering if I was able to secure it in the right position with a band (or something like) for short periods of time between feeds while he's resting, what are the chances of it helping to re-position the lower beak while he's still developing.
I do think there's been a slight improvement through just holding it in position for a few minutes, but it's still not closed fully. I'd hate to miss an opportunity of helping him if it's possible but obviously don't want to hurt him in any way.

Any thoughts?

Janet
 
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