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Okay - I’m not sure they have this one here in Portugal but I will try to find an unfiltered one. He still doesn’t drink or eat, how much would you add in the syringe? Right now I feed him twice a day, each 15 ml… like one drop or 2 per feeding?
Here unfiltered acv is usually available in places which sell organic products.

Are there supermarkets like Carrefour, Auchan or Géant Casino ? If yes, give a look at their organic section, if it's like here you should find unfiltered acv (the one which looks cloudy) there. In the common oil/vinegar section they have only the filtered ones (which look very transparent).
 

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It is difficult to tell because of his swelling. He doesn't eat because of it. His beak is swollen and he has a lot of mucus. His beak is in pretty bad condition, but tbh besides that I'm surprised how "alert" and okay he is. The diarrhoea worries me and I'm wondering if it has to do with liver / kidneys. Compared to the dove with canker he is not like she was. He always has his eyes open, stands up etc.

However, I am worried about canker, if I would give him carnidazole, would that be damaging if he doesn't have canker? Since he's already getting baytril and meloxicam...
I'm not sure about that combination of meds. In the past I have used metronidazole and amoxycillin simultaneously with no side effects. Hopefully Colombina can advise. I know that Baytril is quite harsh on their systems. How long has he been on Baytril? Start with the apple cider vinegar asap and see if that makes a difference in the droppings.
In the past I have used spartrix and doxycycline simultaneously with no side effects but never used spartrix and baytril simultaneously.

The spartrix directions for use (check the pic that I posted in your other thread) say "interactions with other meds and other things: unknown". But maybe simply they never did any study about that...

I checked the directions for use of metacam (meloxicam) and baytril.
I attach pics but they are in French language, if you have them too check them in your language.
Carnidazole is in the nitroimidazole class (I checked online) and they don't mention any interaction with it.
All that said honestly I don't have a definite answer, I'm sorry.

Canker could be originated even by stress, I mean the canker protozoan could multiply in case of stressful situations as Marina explained. I can't tell you if this is the case.

I would look for probiotics. Do you know if French products are available there? If yes, you could look for Vitaregul Francodex or Oceproven Virbac. They have the same composition but the first one is more convenient because it is for bigger amount of water.

I'm going to re-read your whole thread.
 

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No, it's not needed a prescription, they are probiotics (both of them have the same composition). Here they are available in places like garden centers (the ones which sell animal products like Jardiland) or they are directly sold by vets.



A bacterial infection could get worse in case you stop antibiotics when infection is still going on. If there is pus there is still infection.
I have never dealt with a situation similar to yours one. Only my brother dealt with pox but there was no a similar infection.

I really don't know if that could be a good idea or not but last July/August I got an infection at my finger. I had yellow pus under the skin, it was hard and painful too. As the infected area started to increase in size I went to pharmacy. They gave me the product in the pic. It's a transcutaneous antiseptic solution. It can be used in two ways: local bath (the pharmacist suggested this method in my case) and wet dressings.
I found a link in English language with a description of the product:



The pharmacist told me that I would have needed an oral antibiotic in case the product didn't work. The solution worked great and if I remember correctly on day 2 the pus started to little by little go out from skin.
I was wondering if you could try that (wet dressing) on him (of course, not inside the beak).
You could ask for an opinion to your vet.

Baytril is a broad spectrum antibiotic but apparently you didn't see any improvement in two weeks (except for the beginning). I was wondering if you should change antibiotic.
Here you can read info about antibiotic:


About amoxicillin (the one mentioned by Marina) they say:

"An excellent broad spectrum antibiotic. Often good against Salmonella, E. coli, Strep. & Staph. species of bacteria".

Recently my mum got an infection in her mouth and the dentist gave her amoxicillin plus clavulanic acid.
Maybe you could talk to your vet about changing antibiotic?
I don't like giving antibiotics when they are not needed but in case of bacterial infection I fear that without antibiotics the problem could get worse. Honestly it's a big dilemma..

Also I want to say that years ago my vet suggested me to apply topically inside the beak a mouthwash called Eludril. The dentist prescribed that to my mum too
I was wondering if that could help your bird.

Two of our members dealt with terrible cases of pox, honestly I don't remember if there was any point in common with your case but if you have time you could give a look at the threads:




Meloxicam is a pain med, here vets usually prescribe it for birds too.
I have never seen side effects but I know that in a long term it could have side effects.


When my beloved cat Kira needed a pain med but was a senior cat the vet decided to give me arnica instead of metacam.
 

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Oh these are good news!!! I'm very very happy to hear that!
Hopefully his body has started to win the battle against the infection!!!

Let us know what the vet will say tomorrow.
In all cases, having amoxicillin on hand would be a good idea.

Keep us updated!
 

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Don't worry, as I explained in my previous posts and as confirmed by your friends spartrix is very safe. It can be used even as a preventative treatment.

Mycostatine is same thing as nystatin (check the pic).
If it's the one in liquid form 100.000 Ul/ml dosage is 30.000 units each 100 gr pigeon weight. So usually 1 ml for adult pigeon. I'm used to give it divided into 2 doses, I mean 0,5 ml morning plus 0,5 evening (total 1 ml on empty crop).
Years ago one of my vet prescribed 1ml twice a day but according to my other vet, to what I read online and to members here on PT (give a look at the following old thread) the dose is normally 1 ml daily divided in 2 doses.
Personally I have never seen vomiting issues.


Regarding liver, I suggest you to look for a product similar to the one in the pic. It is a plant-based supplement containing artichoke and other plants like goldenrod. Artichoke has many health benefits, among them it helps liver health and increases the production of bile, which helps remove harmful toxins from liver. Goldenrod has many benefits too, it's good even for kidney.
Here it is available in agricultural supply stores.

This is a good website about visible indicators of health in mouth/throat, try to give a look at it, there are a lot of helpful info.

 

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Yes, 0,4 ml twice a day is ok.

When I mentioned Betadine I meant the one in liquid form (solution 10% see the pic), not the cream.
One of my vet explained me that Betadine can be gently applied on canker/yeast growths using a q-tip. I think I posted the thread with all the info in your other thread.


Your bird has also pus piece inside the beak which means abscess. Abscess is usually caused by bacterial infection. Honestly I don't know if in a similar situation is good to apply Betadine so I would not do that.
 

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0,4 is the dosage calculated on his weight (250 gr) but as I said normally the dose administered is 1 ml daily divided in 2 doses.
So 0,5 it's ok.

Glad to hear that his droppings are improving!
 

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So besides the ACV I purchased probiotics from the vet that I added to the food.It's from "Nature Digest".

I wanted to show you pictures of the beak, I think the plug will fall off soon, it's bleeding a little bit every time I feed him because I have to put some pressure on it to hold him, I try not to but it's impossible.

Also his tongue is visible now, that#s when I realised how bad the swelling was or it was probably just covered in tricho stuff :(

Yesterday I did the fecal test but I think it will take until Tuesday or Wednesday to get the results. it's okay, because I need to wait to finish the treatment anyways before treating coccidiosis.

Here are pictures of the beak, before treating with Spantrix & I think we're 4 days in now. Maybe this will help someone else to get the right diagnose or help a pigeon, since none of my vets even mentioned it could be trichomoniasis. I assume the pox wart covered the tricho swelling, it probably has always been there but only became visible when the pox fell off. It was wrong of me to assume it got infected because he scratched it....
View attachment 102860

I know this might not look like a lot, also it was difficult to show everything on pictures, but it's a huge improvement.

On the left you can see the swelling, it kept growing until his left under eye area was swollen and it affected the eye. His beak was totally swollen and the inside covered so much he couldn't eat or drink and his tongue wasn't visible. He had lots of mucus, I think also because of the pus and his inability to swallow.

On the right it's after giving 1 pill of Spantrix a day - the swelling is drying up, but the most important part is that all the stuff on the inside of his beak is going away. No mucus anymore. His tongue is visible again, he even tried to eat grains by himself which is difficult and sometimes he can't swallow them. on the top right picture you can see that the plug is about to fall off, there is a small bleeding edge and I hope it will fall off naturally and he won't scratch it off because it will bleed :( I don't know how his beak will look or if there is a way to stich the are so it won't have a hole in the side,
but for now I'm extremely happy with the improvement, for the first time I think he will survive this :)

For me it seems like maybe not all vets are super educated about pigeons and their diseases or how they can show up, without trying to undermine their medical knowledge of course. I think it's always important to seek medical advice in cases like this, but with pigeons I've noticed that often non-medical pigeon experts who maybe have worked with tons of rescues are more able to identify a disease and find the right treatment.

That's why a forum like this is so amazing and helpful, without it I wouldn't have started the spantrix treatment :) thank you!
I'm soo happy to see his improvements 😊!!!
Thanks for sharing pics and info, your experience will surely be a great help for all of us!

You're doing a fantastic job!

What you said about vets is so true.
Keep us updated about results of test and progress!
 

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Thanks for the update! Wow! These are great news!!!

I have never done spartrix treatment longer than 10 consecutive days. Have you checked on what day you are?
Canker growths are still there?

The sanctuary is a serious place?
 

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Sorry for the late reply but I'm having bad days and big problems. One of my pigeons has a serious issue.

Anyway, thanks for the update, I'm very glad to hear about the improvements!

About the white stuff in the beak, I should see them... I know that it's too late for an answer about spartrix but just to be sure I would give it another couple of days (spartrix is very safe). At the end of all the medications treatment remember to give him probiotics and a liver supplement (if I remember well you have both of them).

Keep us updated!
 

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Thanks for your kind words and for asking about my pigeon Aurora.
Last week I felt fluid inside her abdomen... I immediately went to one of my vets, he said probably it's a tumor or hepatitis.... I felt devastated... Yesterday I consulted the second vet, she did an x-ray and didn't find any tumor, eggs... Liver appears normal. Nothing looks wrong... But there is fluid... She suspects a peritonitis related to reproductive organs issues (Aurora stopped egg laying really early, she is born in 2017 and stopped in 2018 or 2019). We have started an antibiotic treatment plus anti-inflammatory.
I'm so scared and worried because even peritonitis is a very very serious issue...I don't want to lose her...

To answer your questions, I agree with Marina, for the moment I would keep an eye on him.

From what I read it is possible to switch to different canker meds in case of stubborn canker.

Keep us updated.
 

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Oh I'm so sorry! That sounds really terrible and I really understand how worried you must be now. I hope she will get better with the medication. Keep me updated!

Regarding the pigeon I fed him some grains by hand and will see how he does in the next days, but he's so strong and has survived all this so he will figure this out, too :) thank you for all your help!
Thanks so much for your support! I'm so scared and worried... I feel so nervous and anxious..
Checking her abdomen for fluid frightens me a lot...I'm also very worried about the antibiotic dose given by the vet....I fear it's too high...
Anyway, I will keep you updated! Thanks so much!

I'm very glad to see that the "plug" finally fell off! I'm sure that he will learn to eat on his own. He is a brave warrior 😊!
My broken wing pigeon Apple also has broken beak. I know that it's a different situation but she is able to eat on her own.
Pigeons are very tough.

In the bad case you could adopt him 😁.

Keep us updated!
 
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