[Jaye]

Hi all,

Ivor recently found a sick and injured pigeon, young adult, hiding under a car. Took it home.

The guy had been attacked...lost all tailfeathers and has lesions on his back. Also...his chest has a big wound, all the skin is gone and there is a scab about 2"x3" to the left of his keelbone.

Now and again there is some fluid which gets trapped under the skin; sometimes when I handle him it leaks out of the wound perimeter. Not pus, just a cloudly sort of pinkish watery fluid.

On top of this, we found one of his feet entwined in hair and swollen.

He breathes heavily a lot of the time. When he gets stressed out and I handle him too long, he starts gasping with mouth open and his breathing gets raspy. This subsides in about 5-10 mins... but it's hella scary and even when calm, his breathing rate is still faster than normal.

Final symptom: his eyes are "pinned" a lot of the time (his pupils very small, showing a lotta iris. Sometimes not, but more often, yes).

We started him on Cipro + Metro + Medacam and he has had that for 4 days now. This based on what my avian vet has prescribed for previously injured pigeons. Unfortunately, I cannot bring her/him in for a worup...it'd cost over $300 and I just spend almost a grand on gettin' my pal Chroma rehabbed and released.

Anyway... the first 2 days he didn't eat much of anything, and when I went to visit Ivor a few days ago, the pigeon was emaciated (although he hadn't been when she found him). Ivor cleaned the wound; it is very scabbed over with some softer scab at the edges.

I took over care from her 2 days ago when I saw the weight drop... I removed about 80% of the hair in his toes...

I have been handfeeding him parrot pellets and veggies for 2 days now, plus pedialyte and water mixed with Ornicycline. So, his weight is back, his strength is up, and he is finally beginning to pick at loose food in his cage independently.

But he is still usually fluffed albeit awake, the eyes are often pinned, and the breathing a bit laboured. Poop looks pretty good.

Am wondering if anyone recognizes what this might be. Am I giving too many meds at once ? Do you think I should switch the med regimen ? I also have Clavamox in the med kit.
Can that be added to the regimen ? Or would I have to discontinue one or both of the other antibiotics ?


Thanks.

 

[plamenh]

This pinkish watery fluid is what worries me.
It may be wound infection. Clavamox may be option but I don’t think that you can mix with already started medicines. Recovered weight is good sign though.

 

[Charis]

I'm wondering if he has a hole in his crop, at least it sounds like he does.

 

[Jaye]

I thought of that but I do not believe so...the injury is a bit down from the bottom of the crop.

Also, the fluid was there for the 48 hours when he was neither eating not drinking...so it was there even with an empty crop for a long period of time....

Clavamox better at clearing a wound infection than Cipro or Metro, then ??

I am thinking I should lance the area ? Today there doesn't seem to be a way out for the fluid...there's a bit under the skin which cannot drain....

Keep up the replies, thanks.

 

[jenfer]

In cases like this, I'd usually start the bird on Clavamox in case it was a cat/dog attack (although cipro isn't first choice, it's also acceptable).

Can you irrigate the wounded area with saline and post a picture?

 

[plamenh]

Pigeon crop is digestive organ an as such produces digestive fluid. It is still possible that fluid is from ruptured crop, even if bird is not eating and drinking. I agree fluid accumulated under the skin should be drained with syringe and needle. Is there any changes in quantity of fluid? Color? Smell?
For wounds I prefer Clavamox, long lasting, wide spectrum, safer.

 

[Jaye]

Thanks for replies...fluid is definitely decreasing as days go on.

I will switch it over to Clavamox. Is tom'w OK to switch (i.e. 24 hrs after last dose of Cipro )?

He continues showing signs of improvement. More alert, beginning to eat on his own, moving around the cage much more.

Will lance and drain the fluid tom'w AM.

Will just give Medacam this eve.....

 

[feralpigeon]

I'd continue Baytril/Metronidazole for a full five days before switching to Augmentin. In fact the three medications are compatible and you could add the Augmentin/Clavamox and then discontinue either or both the Baytril and Metronidazole after a full five days. You can also give probiotics while dosing
w/antibiotics as long as you wait for a few hours after dosing w/the antibiotics.

fp

 

[Ivor]

Thank you so much Jaye, for taking care this little baby, when I found him, I really thought that he won't survive, he let me catch him without any resistance, and was breathing very heavy, it was a warm day, and he was under the sun, but hard to see him, I was trying to find parking and when I found the first parking someone else came before me, and that happen with two other parkings, so I had to move to the next block, after I did my errands and came back to my car I saw two pigeons walking and when I put some seeds on the floor is when I saw the sick pigeon, George is the Angel for the pigeons in SF, he is always there when I call, you are the best George.

Ivette

 

[Jaye]

Well, so far so good, Ivor. That is always all we can hope for one day at a time.

Feralpigeon ~ I did just that...finished a full 5 days of the initial 2 antibiotics, now have started Clavamox.

He's beginning to eat seed on his own and he's getting stronger. When I let him out of the cage he doesn't just stand there, fluffed, he moves around a bit. He is now more curious as to his surroundings....

Weight is up, strength is up...he is starting to wing-whip me and show some attitude.

The liquid under the skin thang seems to have subsided...I went to drain and couldn't find any obvious pockets like there were before.

The only aspect which keeps me cautious is...he still fluffs a lot..and is still breathing more heavily and rapidly than a "normal" pigeon. It's not as bad as before..matter of fact even that seems to have calmed down some...but it's not near normal, either.

 

[spirit wings]

after the clavamox, give some probios and vitamins, it may make him feel better in his digestion, which in turn can make his whole self feel better.

 

[maryjane]

I hope he continues to improve, Jaye!

 

[Pidgey]

One thing to do is simply count the breaths per minute by watching the tail bobbing, or the chest expanding--there's usually something you can see. A normal bird's going to be running a resting respiration rate of about 30. They can go a lot higher due to anemia (either blood loss or red blood cell loss due to a hemolytic anemia), an actual lung infection, damage from aspergillus... a few different things. When they get the hemolytic anemia, you might have actually stemmed the tide with an antibiotic but it can still take several days for the body to rebuild the red blood cell count. For instance, you find a bird that's running about 60 and you just know he's sick so you start him on Baytril, Clavamox, Doxycycline, whatever.

Say for the sake of argument that the antibiotic was the perfect thing to start clearing the infection and say it was a bactericidal rather than a bacteriostatic drug, so the drug works initially very quickly. What you'd tend to see would be several days (like possibly three to five) of that same 60 respirations per minute, then down to the low 50's the next day, the high 40's the day after that and so on until the respiration rate finally fell to the 30's after a week. If the disease was REALLY acute, that can go as fast as around five days.

If the illness was more chronic, you can see that decay take as long as a few weeks, because it might have less to do with a hemolytic anemia and more to do with histopathologic changes in the actual lung tissue. There's a lot of things that you just can't know, of course, and some answers will always be guesses after the fact.

Pidgey

 

[Jaye]

Thankf for that advice, Pidgey. Breathing rate is about 50-55 per minute. Definitely is down from when he first got here, a week ago.

I will keep counting every other day of so...

He is showing more regular pigeon signs...wing whapping, preening, hanging out and being curious. Still tends not to walk very far. Weight is creeping up but still skinny. The foot issue seems resolved, he usues it regularly now.

 

[Jaye]

The latest: breathing is down to around 45/min now.

He continues to be doing well...eating lots on his own. Still not incredibly mobile, he tends to stay in a 2 ft x2 ft area most of time, but definitely improving; but he doesn't look lethargic, just a bit confused and cautious. He does a lotta vocalizing now.

Poops look good, more hydrated than before.
I just got some probiotics (Ultraflora) so will start those tom'w...

 

[Charis]

after the clavamox, give some probios and vitamins, it may make him feel better in his digestion, which in turn can make his whole self feel better.

I agree. The probiotics should start after he has finished with the antibiotics.

 

[Jaye]

Hi all. A nice ending to this story.

"Barrio" (right in photo) was released back into his neighborhood on Sunday. MaryJane picked up his pal Webster (left in photo) on Saturday....and he was mighty sad the rest of the day. By Sunday AM he was flying all over the house, and was difficult to catch (I figured he was telling me somethin'). His tailfeathers were 75% grown in and his weight was excellent. His breathing rate was now consistently under 45/min, for an entire week or more. He also had been wormed and was eating seed and bread scraps 100% on his own, voraciously. He could maneuver well and he looked strong.

So, send you best wishes and vibes to Barrio. He's back with his 'homies.

 

[Skyeking]

My best wishes to Barrio, may he have a long, happy and healthy life!!!

Thank you for the update.

 

[Pidgey]

You can tell, by the way, that Barrio has had something wrong with him for awhile due to the bad alignment of the "bars" on his wings when folded. That's usually a sign of some problems during the feather development stage of the molt. It can take until the next molting to fix that, though. Good show!

Pidgey

 

[Jaye]

Interesting observation, Pidgey...I never knew that.

I have certainly seen the 'stress marks' on feathers...where the barbs appear to have horizontal "blank" lines running acorss 'em...usually the result of an illness or stress....

....but I never knew about the disconnected bands. Thanks for that info.