[SmithFamilyLoft]

I have also decided when this gets going, Since I have gotten into pigeons In memory of my father who passed back in October, I'm going to allocate portions of my earnings to help in my community to folks that are battling cancer. I could donate to cancer foundations, however I believe there is already a cure, but there is too much to be made for them in chemo and radiation. I would much rather see my money go to helping people that already have cancer improve their quality of life and I believe that's what my dad would want me to do.

Don't forget a nice big fat slice for local, state and federal taxes, including your 15% contribution to social security. Then there is the yellow pages, liability insurance, health insurance, fees to attorneys and CPA's, yellow pages, and various advertising media etc. If one has never run a small business, then they are often very surprised as to how many other entities will be there with their hands out.

Are you going to operate as a sole proprietor or will you form a LLC ? If you can figure out how to turn it into a successful business, then I would franchise it as a turn key system, that way you can do numerous weddings or memorials every single day somewhere, and won't be dependent on the local weather.

 

[Country84]

Don't forget a nice big fat slice for local, state and federal taxes, including your 15% contribution to social security. Then there is the yellow pages, liability insurance, health insurance, fees to attorneys and CPA's, yellow pages, and various advertising media etc. If one has never run a small business, then they are often very surprised as to how many other entities will be there with their hands out.

Are you going to operate as a sole proprietor or will you form a LLC ? If you can figure out how to turn it into a successful business, then I would franchise it as a turn key system, that way you can do numerous weddings or memorials every single day somewhere, and won't be dependent on the local weather.

Taxes are a given, unless I didn't claim it and did not operate as a "business" but I plan on doing that just to be legal. Yellow pages arent needed as I'm doing my advertising on Facebook, I may use the phone book later but a decent ad in there is usually around 2,000 and most people dont even use phone books anymore. In VA health insurance is not required. I am waiting on a call back from my attorney regarding liability insurance also.
As far as corporational concerns go, I will more than likely operate as a sole proprietor unless it completely blows up and I get way overwhelmed then i may branch out, however I have considered LLC status just to cover my rear end in the event that something does happen. Talking with the wedding planners I know, I am predicting that I could comfortably handle 5 to 7 weddings per day on the weekends and 2 to 4 during the week with my second shift schedule working to my advantage, as they have agreed that they could meet me the day of the event and obtain the requested birds that are to be used, grab my baskets for me and meet me the next day to return them. Thats another investment as well, I considered building several of my own baskets but a couple may not be enough so I'm positive I'll have to buy several more.

 

[abluechipstock]

here's two grizzles from a two grizzle mating, got them from josepe, these are racing birds i'll be adding to my whites to strengthen my recessive whites

 

[Country84]

Very nice. Not a whole lot of grizzle in there lol. Ive got 2 pair that will supposedly throw a couple whites every season...we shall see!

 

[Josepe]

Dan,
They sure didn't griizle up like I thought they would.I kept the round after them to race as yearlings this year.The hen looks like those and the cock has a nice grizzle pattern.I think both of yours may be Hens?These are their parents:

 

[SmithFamilyLoft]

Taxes are a given, unless I didn't claim it and did not operate as a "business" but I plan on doing that just to be legal. Yellow pages arent needed as I'm doing my advertising on Facebook, I may use the phone book later but a decent ad in there is usually around 2,000 and most people dont even use phone books anymore. In VA health insurance is not required. I am waiting on a call back from my attorney regarding liability insurance also.
As far as corporational concerns go, I will more than likely operate as a sole proprietor unless it completely blows up and I get way overwhelmed then i may branch out, however I have considered LLC status just to cover my rear end in the event that something does happen. Talking with the wedding planners I know, I am predicting that I could comfortably handle 5 to 7 weddings per day on the weekends and 2 to 4 during the week with my second shift schedule working to my advantage, as they have agreed that they could meet me the day of the event and obtain the requested birds that are to be used, grab my baskets for me and meet me the next day to return them. Thats another investment as well, I considered building several of my own baskets but a couple may not be enough so I'm positive I'll have to buy several more.

If all one is doing is delivering crates with pigeons in them, there is not a whole lot of value added. To me it sounds like a professional photographer who would show up on the morning of the wedding and provide the couple a camera and some quick instructions. Dropping off a crate of birds to a wedding planner, would be like asking them to do my job.

Reminds me of the "service" that was provided to a local funeral home. The Funeral Director explained how "Doves" were delivered in a brown paper bag, I thought to myself, how cheap. No wonder the fancier only earned a few dollars for this "service".

Might be something to consider as you draw up your business plan. I also would question how many times a day the phone will ring as a result of FB advertising. I would suspect that a professional service would have a listing in the phone book, as well as a web site.

A professionally produced DVD explaining and demonstrating your service would be a real plus I would think. The difference between dropping off a crate of birds, and providing a professional service which creates a life time of memories, can be a difference worth many hundreds of additional dollars. A good marketing plan, could involve things such multi-color glossy brochures, with some fantastic photos and testimonials.

Good luck with your venture. I suspect, if we lived in the same city, and were competitors in this business, I would be charging two or three times what you would charge for all 7 weddings, but that would be my fee, to have a single professionally attired and trained staff member attend their ceremony, and at the appropriate time, coordinate their own custom "Dove Release". As my competitors would be renting crates, and I would be providing a breath taking experience for the couple and their guests on their very special day.

 

[Country84]

Well, i didnt really think about it that way, i will be changing my plans around, but since ive never done this before and never attended an event that included it other than me releasing the white homer for my dads funeral service, im kind of shooting in the dark so i definitely appreciate your advice! Ive actually already spoke to a friend about a DVD that i could play at bridal shows and such and one to hand out. Just out of curiosity what would your fee be for this type of coordinated event? And do you charge per bird? And as far as a website that is already in the works. And for brochures ill call my buddy that owns a print/sign shop. But first thing i still need to get my birds haha.

 

[SmithFamilyLoft]

Well, i didnt really think about it that way, i will be changing my plans around, but since ive never done this before and never attended an event that included it other than me releasing the white homer for my dads funeral service, im kind of shooting in the dark so i definitely appreciate your advice! Ive actually already spoke to a friend about a DVD that i could play at bridal shows and such and one to hand out. Just out of curiosity what would your fee be for this type of coordinated event? And do you charge per bird? And as far as a website that is already in the works. And for brochures ill call my buddy that owns a print/sign shop. But first thing i still need to get my birds haha.

I was surprised at what the top end fees are for a top of the line "Dove Release". Consider that in the good ole days, people would spend $5000 for pictures. Of course digital cameras have killed that business.

The fee is what the market will bear. Back in tim buck too, where the reception is in a fire hall, well.....I wouldn't even offer such a service in that kind of market. Determining the needs and wants of your particular market is what is important. In some markets $300 might be at the top end, where in other markets, that would be at very low end. My friend relayed a story to me where he was at a friends wedding where they paid $1200 for apparently a service which impressed the folks attending. With the "average" wedding cost of between $25,000 and $27,000 there just might be opportunity to get a share of that for someone in the right market, that knows how to market their service.

I would imagine having a number of packages, for various price points. Going to take an hour or so to explain your service and get a contract signed. Then numerous phone calls before big day. Then on the wedding day, things do not always go as planned. I don't see how the "Dove Release Coordinator" can effectively preform the service without being there a few hours at least. So, there are hours of selling time, time at the job, plus overhead. Plus I don't know how one will do more then couple of weddings a day, and even at that, it will be a long day. And on days that it rains, regardless of how many hours you have in planning the big day, you could have many hundreds in pay just vanish because you can't preform the service.

Rather then doing 5 to 7 a day, I would imagine that doing 5 a week could end up being a good week. I looked at some numbers briefly, and in my mind one would need $350 per event and up. And you would need to selling and preforming these events every day. And even at those level of fees, I suspect most would not earn enough to cover their personal living expenses.

You have a lot of homework to do.

 

[luckyloft]

I never leave my birds with anybody!I have too much involved and respect for them to do that.I bring my birds to the event and stay until they are released.I offer to help in any way I can.I have heard to many horror stories from people about birds being dropped off and not coming out of the basket and such.One of the first weddings I did at a wedding venue the lady said she found the birds in a box at the front door the day of the wedding.I am now the preferred white dove release vender for that location. Jeff

 

[Country84]

I was surprised at what the top end fees are for a top of the line "Dove Release". Consider that in the good ole days, people would spend $5000 for pictures. Of course digital cameras have killed that business.

The fee is what the market will bear. Back in tim buck too, where the reception is in a fire hall, well.....I wouldn't even offer such a service in that kind of market. Determining the needs and wants of your particular market is what is important. In some markets $300 might be at the top end, where in other markets, that would be at very low end. My friend relayed a story to me where he was at a friends wedding where they paid $1200 for apparently a service which impressed the folks attending. With the "average" wedding cost of between $25,000 and $27,000 there just might be opportunity to get a share of that for someone in the right market, that knows how to market their service.

I would imagine having a number of packages, for various price points. Going to take an hour or so to explain your service and get a contract signed. Then numerous phone calls before big day. Then on the wedding day, things do not always go as planned. I don't see how the "Dove Release Coordinator" can effectively preform the service without being there a few hours at least. So, there are hours of selling time, time at the job, plus overhead. Plus I don't know how one will do more then couple of weddings a day, and even at that, it will be a long day. And on days that it rains, regardless of how many hours you have in planning the big day, you could have many hundreds in pay just vanish because you can't preform the service.

Rather then doing 5 to 7 a day, I would imagine that doing 5 a week could end up being a good week. I looked at some numbers briefly, and in my mind one would need $350 per event and up. And you would need to selling and preforming these events every day. And even at those level of fees, I suspect most would not earn enough to cover their personal living expenses.

You have a lot of homework to do.

My next question may seem dumb but I'm going to ask it anyways, It's the wedding planner/coordinators job to work in what the bride and groom wants and makes it happen and makes an allotted time to do each thing. My question is, how are you actively and directly involved with this, that would be like the DJ showing up, the wedding coordinator giving them a list of songs to play at a specific time and the DJ saying, "I'm not going to play that song at that time, this one would be better." Im just not sure what you mean that you are personally there, in professional atire, for every event. What do you do during that time? The bride and groom would be the ones releasing the pigeons, not myself. I dont mean to sound rude, I'm just trying to figure out exactly what you mean. Other than to give proper handling instructions there doesnt seem to me to be a great need to be there throughout the whole thing. I'm not terribly concerned with money, im not buying 10,000 dollar birds and I already have a full time job making 32 an hour, so this will be just a side thing for me, and as I stated before, a way to help folks in my area struggling with cancer. Not a global corporation.
At my fathers funeral, the owner of the white pigeon wasn't present, he lives over 2 hours away...Nothing would have been different if he had been standing there the whole time other than the fact that he would have just been there.

 

[Country84]

I never leave my birds with anybody!I have too much involved and respect for them to do that.I bring my birds to the event and stay until they are released.I offer to help in any way I can.I have heard to many horror stories from people about birds being dropped off and not coming out of the basket and such.One of the first weddings I did at a wedding venue the lady said she found the birds in a box at the front door the day of the wedding.I am now the preferred white dove release vender for that location. Jeff

Thats horrible! I would never do that. And what do you typically charge per event?

 

[luckyloft]

At every event I have done I have been the one giving instructions to the bride and groom.The day of the event I get there about 30 min before and go over how to hold the birds with the bride and groom, or if they release out of my heart shaped basket I show them how to do that.I also do the same at a funeral.Then yes I just wait until its time for the birds.Then I bring the birds to the participants and let them do their thing.Here is my website...............
www.luckyloftwdr.webs.com
Jeff

 

[Revolution Lofts]

I would rather do less dove releases than to let strangers release the birds.

You can just charge extra for your presence to be at the event. For example, if you were originally going to charge $125 to release 2 birds, you could charge $150. The extra $25 can cover your fuel costs and your time costs. For any additional bird over 2, charge an extra $10 or $15.

You could give better offers to people that don't have that much money. Your fuel/time cost would still be covered in the price.

If you do the releases yourself and charge fairly, there is a good chance you might get more business through better customer service.

If you get an offer to do a release outside of your 30-40 mile radius, you can charge the person per every mile you drive.

We have kilometers in Canada so an example would be:

The price for me to come to the location and help the participants release the birds would be included in the initial price if the location of the event is located within 40 kilometers of my house. Mainly, the radius would cover Abbotsford (my city), Chilliwack, Mission, Aldergrove, and Langley.

Services in Surrey and Vancouver which are the two largest cities in British Columbia (Abbotsford is 3rd), would cost an additional $0.50 were kilometer travelled. So if the service was 20 kilometers away from my 40 kilometer radius, I would charge an additional $10.


The $0.50 additional price per kilometer is not final. It may change to whatever the price of gas is at the time of the release. I haven't really calculated that part yet. It might be more because I'll be losing time driving further into larger cities (lots of traffic) and might be losing fuel money while idling in traffic so I might charge more for everything outside of my radius.

But basically, I want to have the contract with the wedding planners/funeral homes in the entire area and have my own personal clients through advertising on Facebook, craigslist, other online advertising websites, my own website, business cards, brochures, CDS (I can get 1 DVD made for $1.00 through a connection of mine), newspapers, bulletin boards, and customers that refer me.

As far as I know, there is 1 average release business in the area and 1 not so good business. But no one ever hears about them. If I give customers a better deal and give them a better experience, I'm sure I can dominate the whole lower mainland BC in releases and not let any competition rise up. It's not personal, its business - Donald Trump

 

[Country84]

Hey thanks Jeff, that helps a bunch! How much do those heart baskets usually run? I couldnt really think of any reason I should be there the whole time, other than giving proper handling instructions and maybe a few pictures for my web page. But thanks again!

 

[Country84]

I would rather do less dove releases than to let strangers release the birds.

You can just charge extra for your presence to be at the event. For example, if you were originally going to charge $125 to release 2 birds, you could charge $150. The extra $25 can cover your fuel costs and your time costs. For any additional bird over 2, charge an extra $10 or $15.

You could give better offers to people that don't have that much money. Your fuel/time cost would still be covered in the price.

If you do the releases yourself and charge fairly, there is a good chance you might get more business through better customer service.

If you get an offer to do a release outside of your 30-40 mile radius, you can charge the person per every mile you drive.

We have kilometers in Canada so an example would be:

The price for me to come to the location and help the participants release the birds would be included in the initial price if the location of the event is located within 40 kilometers of my house. Mainly, the radius would cover Abbotsford (my city), Chilliwack, Mission, Aldergrove, and Langley.

Services in Surrey and Vancouver which are the two largest cities in British Columbia (Abbotsford is 3rd), would cost an additional $0.50 were kilometer travelled. So if the service was 20 kilometers away from my 40 kilometer radius, I would charge an additional $10.


The $0.50 additional price per kilometer is not final. It may change to whatever the price of gas is at the time of the release. I haven't really calculated that part yet. It might be more because I'll be losing time driving further into larger cities (lots of traffic) and might be losing fuel money while idling in traffic so I might charge more for everything outside of my radius.

But basically, I want to have the contract with the wedding planners/funeral homes in the entire area and have my own personal clients through advertising on Facebook, craigslist, other online advertising websites, my own website, business cards, brochures, CDS (I can get 1 DVD made for $1.00 through a connection of mine), newspapers, bulletin boards, and customers that refer me.

As far as I know, there is 1 average release business in the area and 1 not so good business. But no one ever hears about them. If I give customers a better deal and give them a better experience, I'm sure I can dominate the whole lower mainland BC in releases and not let any competition rise up. It's not personal, its business - Donald Trump

Thats exactly what I was thinking in regards to pricing fairly. I want to give a perfect extra touch to their special day and I want them to know that I'm not out to rip them off like most others in the wedding business. I'm not there to make a killing, I'm there to make a difference in their day, and also in someone elses for that dear reason I wish to do this in the first place. I'm not saying that I wouldnt like to make money off of it, but if its only a few bucks and my expenses are covered then thats fine with me. Not growing a globally dominating money hungry greed driven multi billion dollar corporation(WalMart)

 

[Chocolate Head]

Nwdrs

While Warren raises real considerations, my interpretation of your original post is that you are looking to do releases part-time to finance your hobby and maybe make some side money. If I am correct you don't need to be concerned with health insurance and some of the other overhead mentioned. HOWEVER, there is equipment and supplies you will need (such as feed, fuel and time for training, medications, and other supplies related to raising pigeons). I don't forsee you ever making a living by doing releases, but you can make a nice side income. If you account for every penny and time, you will likely break even if you are doing releases regularly. That may work for you if you enjoy the service you provide and don't need the time to do other things.

Where I do agree with Warren is that you will be running a business and need to know how to do that. The service you are providing means a lot to your customers, which is mostly weddings and funerals. You need to be professional and dress the part. Be respectful to their event/ceremony. You need to determine if there is a market for this in your area and how to effectively advertise. Craigslist and Facebook help, but florists, bakeries, funeral directors and wedding planners are the best. Also, you could do like I have and pay for a space at a bridal show. You will be surprised with the interest. Most people don't know this service exists and have to be educated on the process. Set up a nice display with a couple of birds in pretty cages.

I strongly suggest you join the National White Dove Release Society Yahoo Group, which was mentioned earlier in this post. It's free and you can eventually join the club as a paying member. You will get real answers from professionals who are doing releases and not speculating. As a paying member, you will be able to purchase DVD's and brochures to promote your business. The club pays for the set-up of these items and you can order in small quantities that you would otherwise not be able to do on your own. There is strength in numbers. While this is a great site, there is a resource much more specific to what you are doing. Feel free to PM me if I can help you in any other way.

 

[Country84]

Oh and for your DVD get it made, and then buy labels and DVD-R's and make them yourself to hand out....its a lot cheaper that way! haha

 

[Revolution Lofts]

Hey you never know! You can make an enterprise out of it and sell franchises, offer courses on proper dove release adequate, and branch out. If you can make a living off of racing pigeons and doing dove releases, that would be a dream come true for a pigeon fancier. Flying pigeons for a living, would be great everyday.

But as of right now, like you mentioned its just going to be a side business to cover costs, mainly for my racing pigeons which is what I'm trying to work on more (breed one loft quality birds for races).

So if the dove releases could cover their own costs and the racing costs, I'd be a pretty happy guy.

 

[Country84]

While Warren raises real considerations, my interpretation of your original post is that you are looking to do releases part-time to finance your hobby and maybe make some side money. If I am correct you don't need to be concerned with health insurance and some of the other overhead mentioned. HOWEVER, there is equipment and supplies you will need (such as feed, fuel and time for training, medications, and other supplies related to raising pigeons). I don't forsee you ever making a living by doing releases, but you can make a nice side income. If you account for every penny and time, you will likely break even if you are doing releases regularly. That may work for you if you enjoy the service you provide and don't need the time to do other things.

Where I do agree with Warren is that you will be running a business and need to know how to do that. The service you are providing means a lot to your customers, which is mostly weddings and funerals. You need to be professional and dress the part. Be respectful to their event/ceremony. You need to determine if there is a market for this in your area and how to effectively advertise. Craigslist and Facebook help, but florists, bakeries, funeral directors and wedding planners are the best. Also, you could do like I have and pay for a space at a bridal show. You will be surprised with the interest. Most people don't know this service exists and have to be educated on the process. Set up a nice display with a couple of birds in pretty cages.

I strongly suggest you join the National White Dove Release Society Yahoo Group, which was mentioned earlier in this post. It's free and you can eventually join the club as a paying member. You will get real answers from professionals who are doing releases and not speculating. As a paying member, you will be able to purchase DVD's and brochures to promote your business. The club pays for the set-up of these items and you can order in small quantities that you would otherwise not be able to do on your own. There is strength in numbers. While this is a great site, there is a resource much more specific to what you are doing. Feel free to PM me if I can help you in any other way.

Thanks for your reply and i believe you pretty much understand what im trying to achieve here. Im not worried about any customer service abilities, as i listen well and am courteous regardless. Im aware of my costs and i actually did look into the dove release society and am planning on full membership very soon. Ive spoken with the property owner of the venue my wife and i used for our wedding and he said he would help any way he could. He also gave me contact info for local bridal shows, the lady that coordinates them so i could get a booth. I thank you for your advice and im excited to begin this in my area!

 

[SmithFamilyLoft]

My next question may seem dumb but I'm going to ask it anyways, It's the wedding planner/coordinators job to work in what the bride and groom wants and makes it happen and makes an allotted time to do each thing. My question is, how are you actively and directly involved with this, that would be like the DJ showing up, the wedding coordinator giving them a list of songs to play at a specific time and the DJ saying, "I'm not going to play that song at that time, this one would be better." Im just not sure what you mean that you are personally there, in professional atire, for every event. What do you do during that time? The bride and groom would be the ones releasing the pigeons, not myself. I dont mean to sound rude, I'm just trying to figure out exactly what you mean. Other than to give proper handling instructions there doesnt seem to me to be a great need to be there throughout the whole thing. I'm not terribly concerned with money, im not buying 10,000 dollar birds and I already have a full time job making 32 an hour, so this will be just a side thing for me, and as I stated before, a way to help folks in my area struggling with cancer. Not a global corporation.
At my fathers funeral, the owner of the white pigeon wasn't present, he lives over 2 hours away...Nothing would have been different if he had been standing there the whole time other than the fact that he would have just been there.

If you don't understand what I mean, and if the idea of being there to facilitate the release seems like a big waste of time to you, then I suggest it may just be more profitable to your cancer charities if you were to simply work some over time and donate that to your charity. As I really don't believe you have the sales, service, and marketing background to launch a service based small business.

I don't mean to sound rude either, I am simply providing my insight based on my sales, marketing and banking background. And my experience in launching my own service business and serving literally hundreds of small business owners when I worked in investment banking and served as both a commercial loan officer and branch manger.

I don't know market you may live in. It is possible in your area that getting a few bucks for dropping off a crate of pigeons would make a PT job similar to delivering pizzas for Domino's. It is a highly personal thing, but if I were to launch a new service in my area, I would want to provide a quality service which enhances the image of our birds, and would be worthy of my time and best efforts. For me, if I earned $32 in my regular day job, that would be a personal incentive to me to launch a business which would provide a level of service which would enable my family to do better.

I took a few minutes to do some web searches, and I don't know these folks, but from their web site, they seem to get it.

http://www.ocdoves.com/Prices_.html

In the right market, with the right business plan, I could see where one could pay the help $32 an hour, and the business owner could still earn a good living for his family.