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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
With those white racers on the front cover of the au an more an more mention about whites during club meetings in the pigeons digest an in message forums are the times changing? Better quality birds are being bred will this mean That whites will be getting more respect? Will whites be labeled as good a racer as a bb check red and black?
 

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I do not think any color has advantage or disadvantage, color is meaningless. some winning birds just happen to be white and then may pass on some white to his./her young, but it is their performance that matters not the color. so Im not sure why color white is even being brought up. you can't breed for color and performance at the same time....well you can, but your pool of birds gets less and you would have quicker results if you did not factor in color at all. but it sounds like that would be a nice side project or something.
 

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whites do win , but sometimes it just club wins and some clubs are small as well, therefore it's written down as 1 club and not 1st out of how many birds. I've yet to see a very consisten white racer that has dominated. Protege loft seems to have very good white/splash birds that perform, but the blood comes from his 720. It would be good to blend proteges 720(whitebirds) to a solid white racer and build a white family of birds that can perform .
 

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I do not think any color has advantage or disadvantage, color is meaningless. some winning birds just happen to be white and then may pass on some white to his./her young, but it is their performance that matters not the color. so Im not sure why color white is even being brought up. you can't breed for color and performance at the same time....well you can, but your pool of birds gets less and you would have quicker results if you did not factor in color at all. but it sounds like that would be a nice side project or something.
I have to agree, while white birds are so striking to look at..color is not an issue, it is the breeding/pedigree, their training, their overall health.... that matters. Those are things that bring about optimum performance.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I know breeding/training is key but why are every other color racer you see are everything but whites? Look through an old tpd might catch a grzzle vut that's about it
 

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I know breeding/training is key but why are every other color racer you see are everything but whites? Look through an old tpd might catch a grzzle vut that's about it
Im not a genetics expert by any means, I do think BB are dominate so even if you breed a grizzle or almost white bird with a BB you would get more BBs I would think, so the dominte traits prevail...if you were breeding for color then you won't see many white winners as breeding for color is not the same as performance. so basically people breed for performance not color so that is probably why you do not see many white birds. just a guess on my part.:)
 

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Because white is recessive. There are several more complex ways to make whites, but using recessive white is much easier. Homozygous red grizzles will also give you whites, so that's an easier way to do it if you have some good grizzle birds.

White isn't the issue. If you're breeding for birds with good results, color does not matter. Blue is the wildtype color, so of course you'll see more of those. And ash-red is dominate to blue, so those are also pretty common. It takes other genes to make other colors, so if color is what you want, you may end up spending too much time focusing on that and neglecting the racing and homing ability.

Another thing to keep in mind is, the biggest market for whites is in the funeral/wedding releases. Those birds only need to have enough homing ability to fly a radius of 50 or so miles in most cases, because many people have several local churches. The majority of feral pigeons, as well as the wild rock doves, can home that far. So it doesn't take much. Therefore, it can be hard to find any race-material white pigeons, but they are out there. I think more recently more people have been interested in forming winning families of odd colored birds. Dennis Kuhn is one good example.

One more thing to think about. If a person has a flock of blue pigeons and one or two whites, chances are, a hawk will notice the white ones first. On the other hand, if you have a flock of white pigeons with one or two blues, it will be the same case. In the end, the sickly or weaker birds will be picked off simply because they can be easily caught, but the birds who stick out like a sore thumb, may be hassled by BOP more often.

Feather quality used to be an argument here, but personally, I can't tell the difference between my blues, reds, grizzles, and solid whites. And if white feathers were THAT weak (enough to make a difference), then I wouldn't see all these champion white flights around :rolleyes: And grizzles. What about the janssen White Bandit? That's a pretty good bunch of birds. And what color are they mostly? White! :)
 

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I don't think white birds actually became white unless through some sort of breeding method. I may think that due to such breeding, the potency of good homing ability isn't as strong. That is why there are the crossings which we see are grizzles. I used be a fanatic about white birds because of their majestic look, but when I crossed the whites to my blues they came out splash and performance was lacking. I then took those offsprings and bred back to my blues and performance improved but carried the white splash gene which I tend to not like splashy birds because of mismarking colors. But I took these offspring and put it back to the whites and sometimes I ended up with solid white with bluebar tails or whites with little splashes of blue bar. They ended up improving performance as well. ALl in all, it never performed as well as my regular colored birds. In the end I gave up on trying to improve the blood plus ended with alot of splashy looking birds.
 

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That is true, but I think feather quality has more to do with the individual bird than the color. I'm not a genetics expert so maybe George, Frank, or Bill will have something to add. All I know is crappy feathers can come in any breed, in any color.
 

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I have a pair of Dennis Kuhn White Racers............ They out fly my White Trentons for sure.
 

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White xs white over time can break down feather quality And because whites have not been a main stay for many years in the race world Many have fell down on performances. NOW breeding good white race birds is well not that hard to do. They will in todays world be seen more by mister hawk. BUT that is the breaks. As some people only breed bars in blue. Then bars and checks in blue You find more winners in that color line. IF the bird is pink with yellow dots AND is a winner 1 who cares it wins 2 otherrs will want that bird also Winners get noticed. Given a chance whites perform. More people breeding them the better they get Its a person thing I do not even no if any pigeon cares what color it was born with it jusat live the life delt to it. NOW in the wild white would live a shorter time beacause of mister hawk. As to the blue colored bird.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I agree a pigeon doesn't know it's color just it's ability. That being said I looked over many sites everyone claims to have the best whites but the only one with the proof i seen is the guy who recently got the cover of the au mag. People have some success with grizzles but that's not a WHITE bird to me. I guess time will tell if the whites having the staying power! Hopefully they do to me a white homer is better looking than a check
or blue bar lol
 

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Great topic, I personally like grizzles. The first pair of birds I was given by a member of my club were bandits from hapyco lofts. I think the problem with trying to race whites (or grizzles, red, black..) is that the focus is not on performance but on the color of the bird. If it has the color, people use it in their breeding program. Consequently, you get a bunch of mediocre birds of your chosen color. If you serous about racing a particular color bird, I think it is possible to win races or develop a winning family. What it takes is strict selection process and only keeping the best (based on performance) of the chosen color to use for breeding. I think that is what Dennis Kuhn from the cover of the magazine has done as well as others...

Let me insert here that I do not have much hands on experience, I am a new flyer but have read tons, and this is the opinion I have based on reading...:)
 
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