[DEEJAY7950]

Hi, I've taken the next step in my hobby and joined a pigeon (Racing) club and went to a few meetings and met with a bunch of nice guys who are helping us to get started for young bird season this September, my question is why must the club fly only in one direction which benefits the short enders in the club? I mean wouldn't it be more of an even playing field if say you had a 100 mile race from the north and then 100 miles from the south so the long Enders have the same advantage overall as the short Enders, I was told that a few years back the club did that and the guys on the long end were winning because now they had the short end and those that were used to winning were not too happy about it so they went back to racing that was more in favor of them always being on the short end of the course, so is this club Doomed to fail if they don't look at this in a different way and make it a more fairer racing field as far as location goes, it just seems to me that racing from all points of the compass "when possible" would make racing fairer and more fun! I was thinking that maybe that is why pigeon racing clubs don't grow as fast as they could, I mean they get new members, but because of location they hardly have any chance at all of winning and get discouraged and after a couple of years end up quitting, not a good thing for the sport, for me just getting the birds home is a win but I would like to have the same chance as the person on the short end of the course, so i would like to see a series of races like this 100 north, 100 south, 150 north, 150 south, 200 north, 200 south, 250 north, 250 south, 300 north, 300 south, for young bird season so the races average out between the short Enders and the long Enders ! Being somewhat new maybe I am missing something so please excuse me for my ignorance and give me your input into this please!

 

[Lovebirds]

Nope. You're not missing a single thing. But, good luck with what you're proposing. There may be a FEW clubs that would do or maybe are doing what you suggest, but for the most part, they're all stuck in their ways. Period. Scared of change. Scared the "new" guy will beat them.
We've been flying/racing for 7 years. We proposed a north schedule 3 years in a row. FINALLY this year, they're going to try it. My suspicion though, is that after the YB season is over, they'll go back to the south course.
We've got people in our combine that say (and I SWEAR, this is the truth)......that what ever way you race the YB's, you have to race the OB's the same way the next year? WHAT?? They think because of the yearlings, that they need to go in the same direction for thier benefit. ARE you KIDDING me? HELLO!! These are called HOMING PIGEONS.....they go HOME, no matter where you take them, unless of course you have a talk with them before the race and explain that they have to fly NORTH to get home, or SOUTH as the case may be.
I know what you're saying about the new guys not sticking it out for very long, and maybe the direction in correlation to where they live plays some part, but there's lots of other things too. Weather being one. The older flyers think that if they put the birds up in bad weather and loose a bunch, it's not a big deal. They've GOT thier OB team built, so what the heck? They can't see the big picture. They can't see past THAT week end and maybe winning the race. They can't see that we need to help the new guy out, so he'll be around for OB's the next year and WANT to be around for YB's the next year and the year after that, etc........
I could write a book about all that's wrong with the way things are done, at least around here, but if you say anything, you're a trouble maker and a whiner.........blah, blah, blah..........been hearing it for 7 years, but I haven't shut up yet. Although, I'm sure that some wish I would........LOL
ONE year, we voted in a schedule that put a short race and a long race every week end. People didn't loose birds like they normally do. The new guys could fly mostly short races if they wanted to and try to hold on to their birds. I thought it went pretty well. I know I had WAY too many birds left over and gave away about 15 or so. The next year, the same sort of schedule was proposed.......it was voted down. Go figure.

 

[bbcdon]

My knowledge is miniscule compared to the rest of you, but I think Renee has hit the nail on the head. In some races, especially shorter ones, I believe that the guy with the shortest distance to fly in a race has an advantage, as I think that if a small group of birds are together, the birds which live on the shorter side of the race when approaching their home will circle several times before landing. I think that this prompts some of the other birds who live further down the road will tend to circle for a short time with these other birds which hurts their speed, and then they will circle a few times at their home loft before landing. I am not sure of this, but just an opinion which I believe in. I think that if it is possible geographically, the 4 direction race season would really make it interesting. I have no doubt that people who live on the shorter side would oppose this, unless they really are sportsmen who would like to see how their birds would compete under this situation.

 

[learning]

I agree with both of you...but....

I think the big drawback with rotating directions each year is that if the youngbirds are trained one direction, then as yearlings they are flying in another we might open ourselves up to severe losses in old birds. This may not be the case but that would be the big drawback in my mind.

Dan

 

[Lovebirds]

I agree with both of you...but....

I think the big drawback with rotating directions each year is that if the youngbirds are trained one direction, then as yearlings they are flying in another we might open ourselves up to severe losses in old birds. This may not be the case but that would be the big drawback in my mind.

Dan

Dan, you really think that? I'm curious to know why. Why couldn't a bird that is trained from the south, not make it home from the north, when the other few hundred birds are going in the same direction? And what about a 3 year old bird for example, that has been flying from the south it's entire life, is released on a north course.........it can't make it home? It might get lost?
I had two race birds that I gave a guy. He lives 150 miles north of me. These two birds were raced (well, one of them was raced) from the south as a YB and a yearling. The other one was never raced, just trained from the south. This man turned all the birds loose that I gave him and these two came back home. The others were prisoners here, so I have no idea where they went.
That makes it sound like these birds know WHERE we are taking them and know "pre-race" how to get home. When we take a young bird to the 200 miles station for the very first time, he doesn't "know" where he is. He doesn't know that he's got to go NORTH to get home.......he just knows that home is in "THAT" direction, whether it be north, south, east or west.

 

[learning]

Renee,

You very well may be correct. I, for one, would be willing to give it a try. I know that it would not be met with very much enthusiasm from the majority of my clubmates, that's for sure! It would certainly answer the questions regarding the strength/weakness of being short, long, online or offline.

Dan

 

[Lovebirds]

Renee,

You very well may be correct. I, for one, would be willing to give it a try. I know that it would not be met with very much enthusiasm from the majority of my clubmates, that's for sure! It would certainly answer the questions regarding the strength/weakness of being short, long, online or offline.

Dan

I think that goes for probably 90% of all club members........afraid of change. Afraid to try something new.
We begged for a north course for so long and it just might bite us in the a** when we actually fly it. But, we're going to find out in about 3 months.

PS: I just noticed that your next post will be 1000!!

 

[DEEJAY7950]

Just my 2¢, good birds should be able to home in any direction you choose to take them, so training in one direction on the line of flight seems to me to get an unfair advantage over other fliers on the long or far side of the race so where is the sportsmanship these days? Seems like everyone wants to have a winning loft just to sell birds and could care less about promoting the sport of racing pigeons which is really a great sport for young and old alike, if I had my way I would some day like to start a club that promotes racing and raising pigeons and does it right with fairness to all members not just those on the short end if you know what I mean!

 

[george simon]

Not all combines can race in many different directions, the combine that I flew in (San DIEGO) does not have much chose ,PACIFIC OCEAN to the west, MEXICO to the south, to the EAST we have desert and mountains this leaves us with the north as the only way to go. To the north we have two courses that we could use one on the west side of the mountains the other on the east side.Both have been use in the past, the more westly course called for bent air lines and this is why it is not now used. One thing I must make clear is that the combine is 45miles deep and 25 miles wide, so the short end does not have any great advantage. Over the 15 years that I flew in the combine the winners are equal,there were years that the short end won more and there were years that the long end won more but it was not a one sided thing over all. Now if you fly in a combine that is hundreds of miles deep it would be best if it had two sections lets say north and south and in this way no matter if you flew in either direction you still would have a north/south section and a winner in each section. There is one other thing in our combine the fast races are won by the short end while the slower races are won by the long end. Thats my two cents worth on the subject. GEORGE

 

[Lovebirds]

Just my 2¢, good birds should be able to home in any direction you choose to take them, so training in one direction on the line of flight seems to me to get an unfair advantage over other fliers on the long or far side of the race so where is the sportsmanship these days? Seems like everyone wants to have a winning loft just to sell birds and could care less about promoting the sport of racing pigeons which is really a great sport for young and old alike, if I had my way I would some day like to start a club that promotes racing and raising pigeons and does it right with fairness to all members not just those on the short end if you know what I mean!

I agree that the birds should home from anywhere. However, there's nothing "unfair" about training on the line of flight. We all train our birds and Joe Smoe can train his just like I train mine if he wants to. No advantage there. Now, there might be an advantage in where the loft is, but most of us can't just up and move house because we don't like where we're sitting.
Speaking of fairness..........there really isn't much that's "fair" about racing pigeons. Someone is usually going to have loft location, the wind, even the weather against them on any given day. IMO, if winning is ALL that a person is concerned with, then that's just sad.
There was another thread going a few days ago about which birds are the best ones on any given day, win or not. You really have to look at the BIG picture (race sheets) If one bird is flying 150 miles and another bird is flying 300 miles and there's less than 2 minutes difference in their speeds....even though the 150 mile bird may "win" the race.........which bird is actually the better bird?
And you can believe this. When that guy that had the 150 mile winner sees that the 300 mile winner only lost to his bird by 2 minutes........he can act like he's happy and content to win the race and part of him may be, but if he's a REAL pigeon racer, he knows deep down that the 300 mile bird was better than his by a LONG SHOT.......
The ONLY time a pigeon race is 100% fair is when every single bird in the race is flying to the same loft. Other than that, there's always going to be someone who has an advantage, whether it be a slight one or a huge one. That's just the way it is.

 

[learning]

I think that goes for probably 90% of all club members........afraid of change. Afraid to try something new.
We begged for a north course for so long and it just might bite us in the a** when we actually fly it. But, we're going to find out in about 3 months.

PS: I just noticed that your next post will be 1000!!

Wow! I hadn't even noticed.

Do I get some sort of prize?!

Dan

 

[Lovebirds]

[/COLOR]

Wow! I hadn't even noticed.

Do I get some sort of prize?!

Dan

Here's a cookie. Congrats!! LOL

 

[Lovebirds]

Not all combines can race in many different directions, the combine that I flew in (San DIEGO) does not have much chose ,PACIFIC OCEAN to the west, MEXICO to the south, to the EAST we have desert and mountains this leaves us with the north as the only way to go. To the north we have two courses that we could use one on the west side of the mountains the other on the east side.Both have been use in the past, the more westly course called for bent air lines and this is why it is not now used. One thing I must make clear is that the combine is 45miles deep and 25 miles wide, so the short end does not have any great advantage. Over the 15 years that I flew in the combine the winners are equal,there were years that the short end won more and there were years that the long end won more but it was not a one sided thing over all. Now if you fly in a combine that is hundreds of miles deep it would be best if it had two sections lets say north and south and in this way no matter if you flew in either direction you still would have a north/south section and a winner in each section. There is one other thing in our combine the fast races are won by the short end while the slower races are won by the long end. Thats my two cents worth on the subject. GEORGE

That's true George, for our combine as well. Going East, we'd hit the ocean. Going West, we'd have to cross the mountains and not only would that be tough on the birds, it would be one heck of a drive for the hauler. So, North and South is about all we can do, and most of the combines on the east coast have the same problem, so we're constantly hitting other flocks of birds that are WAY bigger than our flock.

 

[learning]

Here's a cookie. Congrats!! LOL

Wow, that's one big cookie!

I hate to think what you got for breaking 15,000!

 

[SmithFamilyLoft]

I think that goes for probably 90% of all club members........afraid of change. Afraid to try something new.
We begged for a north course for so long and it just might bite us in the a** when we actually fly it. But, we're going to find out in about 3 months.

Ain't that the truth !! And, no matter what the direction, some percentage will allways see it as some sort of disadvantage for them, and some sort of advantage for some other fellow. You can never win with some of these folks.

 

[Timber]

I would agree with all of the post thus far in some fashion. First and formost, Welocme to the Racing Sport! Now its time to see how you birds do against the masses...LOL

The one biggest hurdle will be, the senoir fliers changing their ways. When I came into our club, I had all sorts of visions but through the last three years have found that Club, Combine and Fedration Politics play a huge role in EVERYTHING! LOL Im not saying that you should sit on your idea's, far from it, just slowly work your way into the skeem of things. Let your bird prove themselves in the club, combine and federation results, first. Then once that happens youll have more leverage to use to impose a new course for vote.

One thing you have to also concider here in FLA, escpecially in the Orlando Area is that just to the west of you (south for me) is the ever mighty GHC and U-Ten with the Hundreds of fliers and Thousands of birds. They pritty much dictate what us (mine and your) Club will do as far as race scheduals go. We had a lot of great ideas for our club races and even got it voted in but due to GHC and such we couldnt do it because they were in the area or had a race that same day as well.

Not to mention, if going south is your thing, dont forget the Miami fliers, they to have a lot of birds. I do believe that if your birds are trained in all points of the compass, they can and will make it home from any point. But there is a Huge difference in loft flying and race day.

There's another 2 cents.....youll have a dollar soon.....Heheheh....

 

[SmithFamilyLoft]

I agree with both of you...but....

I think the big drawback with rotating directions each year is that if the youngbirds are trained one direction, then as yearlings they are flying in another we might open ourselves up to severe losses in old birds. This may not be the case but that would be the big drawback in my mind.

Dan

Hey Dan,

I don't think it's like in the Army, where if they move the mess hall, some guys will get lost.

These are after all "Homing Pigeons"...... You show me a yearling, who after training, is sent to a 100 mile race and get's lost, because some cotton picking race committee, went and moved the release point, from the previous year....and well....perhaps the word "Homing Pigeon" should not be applied to that bird.

Imagine the Pigeon Corps Sergeant, telling his commanding officer, that he could not send a message back to the rear, because the war front now is 180 degrees in the other direction, from where the war was last year, and now his birds may not find the home loft.

It's not the movement of the release point in terms of a compass, it's the various obstacles..say like a Mountain, which may be in the way, or the lack of roads to go that direction, or maybe if you are from New Jersey, you end up in the Atlantic Ocean. And if you are releasing over water, that could be a whole different thread.