Pigeon-Talk banner
1 - 20 of 32 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
81 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello, yesterday I collected a young pigeon, she had bad diarrhoea and just seemed a bit off. Ruffled feathers etc. Can fly so no fractures.

After I offered some grains she ate and the droppings improved, still smelled a bit bad but not really diarrhoea.

Yesterday her crop seemed a bit hard, however this morning it feels like an empty bubble, in my opinion it feels a bit too much bubbly? I guess the crop is always a bubble but it just seems bloated. Or could it be because she's very thin so it's more visible?

I will try to attach a video, you can even see it there. She seems okay overall, she's on alert which is good but also seems a bit weak sometimes.

I checked for canker, the beak seems normal nor did I notice a bad smell.

I've read about "sour crop",which I've never seen before in a pigeon. I'm unsure now because I know that canker can also only be in the crop.
I have Spantrix at home and since it's a safe medication, would there be any danger in starting pantrix treatment today to rule out tricho?

I will also send in the faces for analysis.

Unfortunately I'm not confident in my vet here when it comes to cases like this because they didn't diagnose canker on a pigeon before and she almost died because of it,
so I would rather get advice here for now at least.

Thank you!

The video: Loom | Free Screen & Video Recording Software
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,155 Posts
The crop looks a bit extended. If he drinks a lot of water and so have a waterfilled crop, then he might have a yeast infection (sour crop). Put some natural unfiltered apple cider vinegar in the drinking water. 5 ml acv to 1 litre of water. Any chance of getting Nystatin? Don't give any antibiotics for now as this can make things worse.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
81 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The crop looks a bit extended. If he drinks a lot of water and so have a waterfilled crop, then he might have a yeast infection (sour crop). Put some natural unfiltered apple cider vinegar in the drinking water. 5 ml acv to 1 litre of water. Any chance of getting Nystatin? Don't give any antibiotics for now as this can make things worse.
Got it! He's actually drinking a lot of water. maybe it was water in his crop? I found him twice with a wet beak so he must have drunk a lot... Also, he didn't eat much in the morning so I was worried, I mixed Harrison powder with the ACV mixture, some fauna & flora (Harrison probiotics) and electrolytes.... I made a thin mixture and didn't give him too much because I wasn't sure how well or fast he digests. I also soaked some grains for a few hours, then later I saw him eating a little. I will get Nystatin tomorrow. I got it before for the other pigeon but I think I threw it out because I only used it for the one pigeon that had canker and was worried it wasn't "clean" anymore. I sent in the faces today, so will hopefully get the results the next days.
thanks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,155 Posts
An adult needs about 1 ml twice a day, maybe you can give a bit less. Dosage is 30 000 units per 100 gr birdweight twice a day. Give on an empty crop and wait half an hour before letting him eat.There's a lot of info online reg chickens with this problem, very little info for pigeons. Keep us updated.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
81 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
An adult needs about 1 ml twice a day, maybe you can give a bit less. Dosage is 30 000 units per 100 gr birdweight twice a day. Give on an empty crop and wait half an hour before letting him eat.There's a lot of info online reg chickens with this problem, very little info for pigeons. Keep us updated.
Okay, first nystatin dose has been given. Let's see if it improves his condition.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
81 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
And the crop?
You mean how it is now or if I got a crop swap? I couldn't do the swap because couldn't bring him to the vet yet but I will try to do it today or tomorrow.
But this morning there wasn't a bubble, it was empty. I'm almost certain that it was only so "bloated" because, like you said, he drank loads of water. He still has bad diarrhoea but he already seemed better this morning. Maybe the nystatin and ACV & probiotics is helping a little already? He's just very thin, so I'll try to give him a bit more Harrison mixture, I kept it to a minimum because I was worried he wouldn't digest it or it would put too much pressure on the crop. Thank you for helping!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
81 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Hello!

I just wanted to update you. We've already done the 2day treatment for coccidiosis and cappilaria. We also did a crop swap because there was some white stuff in his beak, but it came back negative, the only thing they said it shows signs of a dysbiosis and therefore a secondary bacterial infection?

After the first day of treatment his faces were horrifying, full with eggs & worms. I have never seen it that bad with any of my other pigeons. I will attach a picture and apologise in advance.
Unfortunately he didn't eat by himself, I think he didn't feel very well. He was still very alert though. I continued with Harrison & probiotics treatment and I noticed his digestion wasn't well, it was very slow. So I added Pankreoflat, and now after two days it seems to get better and I sometimes see him trying to eat a little bit. He still has diarrhoea, but it could also be because he only eats liquid food?

I think we're on a good path and I hope that he will start eating more by himself in the next days.

Insect Cuisine Foam Soil Rock
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
81 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Today I sent in droppings to see if he still has worms. Unfortunately I also found out that he lost 20grams, he's now only 205 :( The vet said it's likely because the parasites cause inflammation etc., I should have fed him more. I will feed him 4x a day Harrison, vitamins etc. and I'll do a smaller amount if necessary, depending on how well he digests. maybe 4x 12ml a day. He was also a bit wobbly, he got some fluids + calcium. For now I will remove the grains because I think it might be too much for his digestive system and will only feed the formula more regularly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
81 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I'm a bit concerned because something seems to be wrong. It first seemed like he was just weak and lost his balance, had struggle walking straight etc. However, it seems more like he's having neurological issues? He looks weird, not normal. I don't know how to describe it but I'm wondering if he could have PMV? Or could it be something else?
He doesn't twist the head, but besides the balance problem he seems a bit shaky and stares in a weird way. he has this expression that reminds me of one of my pigeons who already recovered from PMV.
I put him in a smaller transport box because I thought it's less stressful for him.
I will attach a video of him here: Loom | Free Screen & Video Recording Software
And this is him walking, but it was2 days ago when his coordination problems started. Now I would say it's worsehttps://www.loom.com/share/fe56f6f3e1364451aaf571d1c27ec19f
Is there anything I could do to help him more?

Thank you
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
81 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
No I stopped Nystatin after the crop exam came back normal. The crop is also normal, I think at the beginning it seemed bloated because he drank huge amounts of water... His digestion has improved as well, he poops regularly so I try to feed him a bit more because of the weight loss...

I have just discussed this with a friend who has also rescued quite a lot of pigeons, we came to the conclusion that the vet might have prescribed a dose way too high and his neurological problems are because it poisoned him. I will write down the meds + dosage here:

Baycox: 0.15ml per day for 2 days
Panacur 0.18 ml per day for 3 days (but only gave for 2 days).

His weight at time of prescription was 225 gram. A week later he was only 200 gram. he started to get worse roughly after the first treatment, but I thought that he wasn't well because of the huge amount of worms + eggs he had. I never questioned it would come from the meds. I precisely asked the vet if it's oaky to give it at the same time, she said yes. Later I found out from my friend it's often not recommend to give Baycox and panacur at the same time because they are both very strong meds. This vet in particular always mentions that she likes to give high dosages.

What is your opinion about the dose, does it seem normal? This is the first time I'm using Panacur, so I have no comparison...

I've also just read a lot of bad stuff about Panacur on this forum so I wanted to ask if you think it's possible that his neurological problems are caused by the meds? if yes, is there anything I can do to help with the toxicity or detox?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
81 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
do you have any sources that show evidence about this? Because I found a lot about it on the internet and here but it had mainly to do with an overdose. I can’t find examples of a normal dose. I will go to the vet this morning, it was meant to be for another pigeon but I will take him instead and talk about this. I would assume they deny that it’s toxic otherwise they wouldn’t prescribe it so I want to show something 😔 I guess I will also do a blood test and it should show up there as well? I just checked and he is still alive, he was actually sleeping standing on one leg instead of sleeping laying down, maybe it means he has some more strength. But he still had a weird posture and staring. I read that anorexia and lethargy are symptoms of panacur poisoning and this is what he has, he stopped eating the day after the first treatment and hasnt been well ever since. Plus the neurological problems.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
81 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
In a thread in this forum I found this

"I just consulted my pigeon formulary and here is what it says for Panacur (fenbendazole): Usual dose is 25-50mg/kg orally once a day for 3 days. Fenbendazole is usually dispensed in a liquid that is 100mg/ml.

That means a 350g bird (I have no idea how much your birds weigh) could receive a range of 0.1 - 0.2ml of fenbendazole once a day for 3 days."

The pigeon weighted 225, I'm not sure if I calculated it correctly but I think the higher 50mg/kg dose would have been 1.1ml per day. he got 1.8ml which is a third more than a high dose.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,155 Posts
There's a lot of info online reg Panacur being toxic to pigeons. I've read about this on the Palomacy FB group as well.

His symptoms started after he got his second dose, so it is probably related to the deworming.
 
1 - 20 of 32 Posts
Top