I have just received from America some Sal-Bac Vaccine now I have been told that if I use this on my race birds they will not perform very well the following season. Will anyone who has used this vaccine give me some guidance.
Regards,
Doogal
Paratyphoid Disease and the Vaccine
Doogal
I have just received from America some Sal-Bac Vaccine now I have been told that if I use this on my race birds they will not perform very well the following season. Will anyone who has used this vaccine give me some guidance.
Regards,
Doogal
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Tayyiba:
No, antibiotics will not 'cure' a bird with PMV - PMV is a virus, and medications do nothing to kill viruses. Antibiotics kill bacteria, that is it.
If a bird dies the day after you start giving it antibiotics - it's not because of the antibiotic - the bird was about to die anyway. All antibiotics will do is help the birds make it through any secondary infections, which often occur due to the weakened condition of the bird.
Circo virus is a possibility. Apparently, it drains the immune system, opening up the birds to a host of other problems, including PMV and canker
http://members.aol.com/duiven/circo.htm
The problem with so many viruses in pigeons is that some of the symptoms from one disease to another are so similar.
PMV can cause all the symptoms you describe - including the excessive drinking http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/diseases/notifiable/disease/pigeons.htm
Yes, fecal matter from PMV infected birds smells - and is dark green and watery. Some birds with paratyphoid will develop neurological problems (twisted neck, off balance, etc.) But that is more common in PMV. Paratyphoid also presents symtoms of wing paralysis, 'boils' on the wing, and stiff legs or joints - often resulting in limping. http://www.wingswest.net/pigeons/health/paratyphoid.html
Paratyphoid is a bacterial infection - and CAN be treated with antibiotics.
Canker requires a different medication altogether. What are you using to treat right now?
No, antibiotics will not 'cure' a bird with PMV - PMV is a virus, and medications do nothing to kill viruses. Antibiotics kill bacteria, that is it.
If a bird dies the day after you start giving it antibiotics - it's not because of the antibiotic - the bird was about to die anyway. All antibiotics will do is help the birds make it through any secondary infections, which often occur due to the weakened condition of the bird.
Circo virus is a possibility. Apparently, it drains the immune system, opening up the birds to a host of other problems, including PMV and canker
http://members.aol.com/duiven/circo.htm
The problem with so many viruses in pigeons is that some of the symptoms from one disease to another are so similar.
PMV can cause all the symptoms you describe - including the excessive drinking http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/diseases/notifiable/disease/pigeons.htm
Yes, fecal matter from PMV infected birds smells - and is dark green and watery. Some birds with paratyphoid will develop neurological problems (twisted neck, off balance, etc.) But that is more common in PMV. Paratyphoid also presents symtoms of wing paralysis, 'boils' on the wing, and stiff legs or joints - often resulting in limping. http://www.wingswest.net/pigeons/health/paratyphoid.html
Paratyphoid is a bacterial infection - and CAN be treated with antibiotics.
Canker requires a different medication altogether. What are you using to treat right now?
Pictures
There was lots of rain, we washed the entire yard with detol or savlon(hopefully its acidic)
Theres hardly traces of extreta enywhere. I mentioned Baytil and the 2 other options stated in the article to the bird shop, they wont sell unless on prescription or they have to see the bird, how am I going to take the whole lot, I dont know who's got it!
Someone plz send you email address, this place wont let me upload the pictures cause they too big, its pictures of the extreta and 1 of the birds
There was lots of rain, we washed the entire yard with detol or savlon(hopefully its acidic)
Theres hardly traces of extreta enywhere. I mentioned Baytil and the 2 other options stated in the article to the bird shop, they wont sell unless on prescription or they have to see the bird, how am I going to take the whole lot, I dont know who's got it!
Someone plz send you email address, this place wont let me upload the pictures cause they too big, its pictures of the extreta and 1 of the birds
Attachments
Hi there, the following link should help out, http://www.siegelpigeons.com/catalog-paratyphoid.html
Lawman
Lawman
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352 Posts
I did not know there was a vaccine for Paratyphoid? please clue me in on this vaccine I havent heard of. Thank Rena
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352 Posts
I live by Oxine! Its the best I have found for spraying loft, birds, water, nest and you can sure breath alot better after spraying it. So you know its really benefitting the birds. I would like to know where to get a fogger, but I just put it in a spray bottle and spray everything birds included. It is a must to use. I like it more than Nolvasan. I still will wash out my loft with Nolvasan, but Oxine is a must if you just want to spray loft and everything in it.
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530 Posts
Go to one of the pigeon house websites, Jedds, Siegels, or global and look at the SalBac Vaccine, make sure when you use it the birds are not sick, I have found that after the birds have been given the vaccine that they do get a little down for a couple of days and then they all seem to perk out of it and look great.
Ellen
Ellen
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352 Posts
All these diseases, I only vaccinate for PMV, treat for canker, worms. Thats it. I have never had a bird with a wing boil, pox. Canker yes. I bird I got from back East died on me once, that stumped me I do not know what was wrong with him. I find the best thing is do not overcrowd your birds and do not introduce new birds in your loft. Clean the water put a squirt of Oxine in it, spray Oxine and everythings fine.
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530 Posts
Have you all heard of Virkon, I was on one of the roller groups and they were telling me about it, looks to be maybe the new wave of things coming out that works really well from what I can see.
http://www.homelandsecurity-equipment.com/VirkonProductCatalog.htm
1/4 teaspoon for the birds in the drinking water
up to a teaspoon in the cleaning water when solution has been mixed according to directions from the pigeon roller guys.
There is a minimum order requirement of $25, but I understand it goes quite far.
Ellen
http://www.homelandsecurity-equipment.com/VirkonProductCatalog.htm
1/4 teaspoon for the birds in the drinking water
up to a teaspoon in the cleaning water when solution has been mixed according to directions from the pigeon roller guys.
There is a minimum order requirement of $25, but I understand it goes quite far.
Ellen
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352 Posts
Ellen, I couldnt find your Vikron post, but yes there are some guys in our club trying it out for the first time now. I will let you know the results. But Oxine is GOOOOOOD!
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71 Posts
Hi all!
Virkon or Virkon S as we know it here in SA is an excellent virucidal disinfectant tested against at least 18 major viruses families, one being paramyxoviridae.
It can be given at a very low dosage in the drinking water but I use it mainly as a loft scrub at the rate of 50g/10l water.
The only and best way to treat paramyxo and salmonella / paratyphoid is via innoculation with the appropriate vaccine!
In SA, PMV 1 is popular for paramyxo as well as as Novibac and Columbovac. Talovac 303 is also suggested. Don't know if it is available in your country. The best people to ask are the turkey farmers as they are up to date with all the latest and tested vaccines!
La Sota is not recommended as it only lasts for a short time!
The best for Salmonella is Chevivac-S (injectable) and lasts for 12 months!
Regards, and remember antibiotics can't kill these viruses. You must build-up the pigeons immune system.
white flight ZA
Virkon or Virkon S as we know it here in SA is an excellent virucidal disinfectant tested against at least 18 major viruses families, one being paramyxoviridae.
It can be given at a very low dosage in the drinking water but I use it mainly as a loft scrub at the rate of 50g/10l water.
The only and best way to treat paramyxo and salmonella / paratyphoid is via innoculation with the appropriate vaccine!
In SA, PMV 1 is popular for paramyxo as well as as Novibac and Columbovac. Talovac 303 is also suggested. Don't know if it is available in your country. The best people to ask are the turkey farmers as they are up to date with all the latest and tested vaccines!
La Sota is not recommended as it only lasts for a short time!
The best for Salmonella is Chevivac-S (injectable) and lasts for 12 months!
Regards, and remember antibiotics can't kill these viruses. You must build-up the pigeons immune system.
white flight ZA
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71 Posts
Hi there!
Especially to Terry!
Sorry, you are VERY correct, salmonella/paratyphoid IS A BACTERIA NOT A VIRUS!
Hope I've not misled anyone into doing anything brash?
However, for safety sake, here in SA some fanciers do vaccinate for paratyphoid/salmonella using Chevita Chevivac-S or Autogenous 2 vaccine!
It prevents using antibiotics as a preventative alternate!
If we do have to use an antibitioc it would be Furaltadone 15mg tablets. 1 Tab per bird for 5 -7 days!
Regards.
white flight ZA
Especially to Terry!
Sorry, you are VERY correct, salmonella/paratyphoid IS A BACTERIA NOT A VIRUS!
Hope I've not misled anyone into doing anything brash?
However, for safety sake, here in SA some fanciers do vaccinate for paratyphoid/salmonella using Chevita Chevivac-S or Autogenous 2 vaccine!
It prevents using antibiotics as a preventative alternate!
If we do have to use an antibitioc it would be Furaltadone 15mg tablets. 1 Tab per bird for 5 -7 days!
Regards.
white flight ZA
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15,608 Posts
Where did he vaccinate? The neck or leg?
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6,901 Posts
Was your friend vaccinating more than one at once and reusing the needle? If so, the bird may need a round of antibiotics....
fp
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71 Posts
Vaccine
Hi there!
Firstly, establish where on the body he vaccinated?
I presume he used a needle?
Secondly, did he swab the needle with surgical spirits after each injection?
Third possibility is that the bird was already infected and has now developed the "full blown" disease because of the vaccination and if this is the case I recommend ten days of Baytril drops down the throat of that particular bird.
A word of caution - it is the recommendation of the cultivars of vaccines not to use a / their vaccine if a pigeon shows symptoms of that particular disease being vaccinated for.
It is also highly recommended to give the birds a course of antibiotics, e.g. Doxybiotic or Terramycin before the first time of vaccination.
With the booster later this is not necessary.
Hope all goes well!
white flight ZA.
Hi there!
Firstly, establish where on the body he vaccinated?
I presume he used a needle?
Secondly, did he swab the needle with surgical spirits after each injection?
Third possibility is that the bird was already infected and has now developed the "full blown" disease because of the vaccination and if this is the case I recommend ten days of Baytril drops down the throat of that particular bird.
A word of caution - it is the recommendation of the cultivars of vaccines not to use a / their vaccine if a pigeon shows symptoms of that particular disease being vaccinated for.
It is also highly recommended to give the birds a course of antibiotics, e.g. Doxybiotic or Terramycin before the first time of vaccination.
With the booster later this is not necessary.
Hope all goes well!
white flight ZA.
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71 Posts
Paramyxo Virus - PMV 1 Vaccine
Hi Guys!
DON'T mess with this virus! It will ruin your entire race loft and even stock loft if left untreated!!
NO Baytril or any other antibiotic will cure this dreaded virus. It only suppresses the other bacteria waiting to take over a weakened immune system of the infected pigeon!!
ONLY an innoculation/vaccination at approximately 3 - 4 weeks old (with PMV 1 vaccine) followed by a booster at about 8 weeks old will form the necessary immunity. There are so many sub-clinical diseases such as young bird disease, circo, herpes, paratyphoid diseases that attack the birds immune system once paranmyxo is contracted.
Do all your birds when doing the booster.
You can race about 4 weeks again after the booster BUT do provide pro-biotics once vaccinated.
Only vaccinate healthy specimens.
Thats all.
white flight ZA
Hi Guys!
DON'T mess with this virus! It will ruin your entire race loft and even stock loft if left untreated!!
NO Baytril or any other antibiotic will cure this dreaded virus. It only suppresses the other bacteria waiting to take over a weakened immune system of the infected pigeon!!
ONLY an innoculation/vaccination at approximately 3 - 4 weeks old (with PMV 1 vaccine) followed by a booster at about 8 weeks old will form the necessary immunity. There are so many sub-clinical diseases such as young bird disease, circo, herpes, paratyphoid diseases that attack the birds immune system once paranmyxo is contracted.
Do all your birds when doing the booster.
You can race about 4 weeks again after the booster BUT do provide pro-biotics once vaccinated.
Only vaccinate healthy specimens.
Thats all.
white flight ZA
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273 Posts
Excellent Pigeon Talk Article
I read an excellent article here on paratyphoid pigeon talk. The author said just about all pigeons carry Paratyphoid and the only birds that get sick are the ones the are stressed do to malnutrition or worn down for some other reason. I found this to be true. I brought home a sick feral. Two of my birds that were raising babies got sick. I gave them extra food, fed the babies and the illness disappeared. The babies and all my other birds were fine. I bought drugs but did not use them.
I read an excellent article here on paratyphoid pigeon talk. The author said just about all pigeons carry Paratyphoid and the only birds that get sick are the ones the are stressed do to malnutrition or worn down for some other reason. I found this to be true. I brought home a sick feral. Two of my birds that were raising babies got sick. I gave them extra food, fed the babies and the illness disappeared. The babies and all my other birds were fine. I bought drugs but did not use them.
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I'm glad you appreciated this thread.
Did you actually get a diagnosis?
We stress the importance of getting birds innoculated IF they come in contact with other birds, whether it's new birds that are introduced in the loft, or while on the way to a race, or during shows.
From your post I am reminded of the importance of isolating any new birds from your own birds for 5 weeks, prior to putting them in the same loft. I cannot stress the importance of this. You can completely bring their immune systems down from contact with a carrier, when the whole issue can be resolved thru innoculation. Prevention is key, not only innocluation but keeping the immune system in optimum performance thru nutrition, varied diet and healthy environment.
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5,352 Posts
Well....you may have forgotten to mention the 5 gallon buckets of dead pigeons you might have to haul out of your loft for several days if you don't vaccinate.
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5,352 Posts
Yeah...but we ain't vaccinating turkeys.
Are you suggesting these products were designed with turkeys in mind ?
I thought they were pretty specific to pigeons.
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